Frank Rattey - Planeteers

00:00:01: Welcome to

00:00:01: the Rooted in Change

00:00:02: podcast.

00:00:05: Hey everyone, my name is Jan and you're listening to The Rooted In Change Podcasts.

00:00:08: this show features European clean tech champions at their solutions to tackle the climate crisis.

00:00:12: today's guest is Frank founder managing director of Planeteers.

00:00:17: when combatting climate change we can actually mimic natural processes And this is what Planeteer does.

00:00:23: they envision a future where carbon emissions are not only reduced but actively removed from the atmosphere.

00:00:28: So their approach captures CO₂ from industrial point sources or the atmosphere by accelerating in a natural weathering process using limestone and water.

00:00:37: And this, in turn creates mineralized water that is safely released into the ocean so permanently removing the carbon from the atmosphere.

00:00:44: We learn more about how the tech works in just a minute.

00:00:47: Welcome Frank!

00:00:49: Hi Jan thanks very much for being here.

00:00:51: Well Thanks For Making The Time.

00:00:53: As you know, my first question to my guests is always who I use a person.

00:00:57: So tell me what's your background?

00:00:58: How did you end up founding PlanetEase?

00:01:01: Yeah actually, I'm fifty-two and married with two little kids which are come back later.

00:01:07: so at seven I was eleven.

00:01:10: that sort of the inspiration also motivation.

00:01:14: go ahead.

00:01:15: My background is industrial engineering Which i studied in Braunschweig city Germany Sweden and Gothenburg.

00:01:22: I started my career in consulting.

00:01:24: We spent almost ten years for a company called Carnegie, working mainly on the automotive environment.

00:01:31: after ten years of project experience and i decided to move one... ...and start it.

00:01:38: second Korea in the play manufacturer ABUS working first in France later on Germany.

00:01:44: different senior leadership positions what they call operations procurement customers quality engineering.

00:01:53: That was cool, a lot of insights especially on how to manage large-scale international teams.

00:02:01: working there for twelve years and having had many different bosses and colleagues I decided to step out in the midst of the corona crisis new adventure into a completely different era, which was startup for me at that point of time.

00:02:17: I started founding and this is how ended up with plan tiers.

00:02:21: so right

00:02:23: what an exciting journey?

00:02:24: And think there's two types of founders i would say So these either the ones That you know come out of university find an idea or have been doing their research on You know certain topic in them realize a pattern and then they bring to to the IP and that ultimately leads them creating in the company.

00:02:46: or there's someone who says, look I have a lot of industry experience.

00:02:51: And now i use all of that experience... ...and bring it into the start-up world because I've seen the patterns.. ..I know what is working , I know how companies work from inside out .

00:02:59: Now I create my own invention.

00:03:00: that feels like you've done this second part.

00:03:03: but whats actually the inspiration behind Planet T?

00:03:06: Is where does sort of the tech side come into play ?

00:03:09: How did that workout?

00:03:11: In the end Nature inspired us, so we believe in the power of climate change.

00:03:17: I mean what we as humans are doing is emitting around forty five gigatons a year off CO two and that's an awful lot.

00:03:25: So I live in Hamburg And we have a lot of container vessels here under the really big ones.

00:03:31: they carry about two hundred thousand tons.

00:03:33: We need to know thousands of these big vessels year by year that we have to avoid and get rid of.

00:03:40: We believe technology has actually something to say, it can provide solutions to reach the state especially if they're inspired by nature.

00:03:51: So as you said in the intro, we've picked a natural process called limestone weathering.

00:03:56: what is happening there?

00:03:57: It rains, rain picks up CO-II in the air forms carbonic acid and when this hits limestone on the ground then it reacts towards bicarbonate and calcium ions which flow via rivers into the ocean And there they come to the deep part of the ocean remain for very long period And thus it's considered a stable carbon storage in the ocean.

00:04:20: This process is perfect, and its happening anywhere at large scale because roughly ten percent of our planet are covered with limestone.

00:04:28: It just very slow And that's what we actually worked upon.

00:04:34: So, we drastically accelerated this process from millennia to minutes and using the same ingredients more or less so we use limestone which we mille.

00:04:43: We used CO₂ out of industrial sources so called point sources.

00:04:49: This can be biogenic CO₀ from combustion of biomass Or fossil CO₁ since cement burning or lime-burning processes.

00:04:56: Then we take water.

00:04:58: In a nutshell, we harden the water.

00:05:00: So our process is not changing the water quality per se.

00:05:05: We are just making it little bit harder and put some minerals into this water And these minerals are bicarbonate ions that are the translated CO₂ and calcium carbonate molecules.

00:05:23: Thus, we have identified a stable and permanent storage for carbon into the ocean.

00:05:30: And delivering permanent removals with measurable impact.

00:05:34: Nice!

00:05:36: How did you come about that technology?

00:05:39: You mentioned nature inspired but coming from your previous industrial background I guess at Airbus I assume you didn't have any touch point to removing carbon from the atmosphere.

00:05:52: So sort of where, what was the point in time when you got in touch with a technology break?

00:05:56: Oh wow!

00:05:57: Can actually bring my organization and how do or even sales experience to this table.

00:06:04: on What's the backstory there?

00:06:06: Now we have four co-founders, so two Florians.

00:06:11: One is geochemist and one is also industrial engineer.

00:06:14: And we have Jens who's professor for Aquatic Geochemistry at the University of Hamburg.

00:06:20: He was actually conducting a research project taking this process in one of its research topics under German CDMRA Research Consortium And we have looked at this research project and also the solution they had initially used, thought everything is ready.

00:06:40: Let's just make it a bit bigger, more industrial then work on that process.

00:06:44: So from today onwards we are intensively collaborating with research partners mainly the university in Hamburg but also Geoma & Kiel, Harriet Watch University of Edinburgh.

00:06:56: some others develop this solution further, but also ensure that we have a seamless link into research as we're touching very sensitive system the oceans.

00:07:09: Yeah

00:07:10: yeah I think it's really good point right there and you don't want to remove the carbon at cost of your harm another ecosystem.

00:07:19: so i guess thats sort-of an asset is natural process that doesn't really exist.

00:07:25: Be sure about it and make sure that you follow.

00:07:28: all the right guidance is there, I guess.

00:07:30: That's one of the common questions we get in our approach, because putting CO₂ into water means you acidify the water.

00:07:39: You produce carbonic acids and that is not what we are aiming for.

00:07:43: We're translating this to bicarbonate ions which is a different species of carbon.

00:07:49: This is actually in buffer for acids In a way where helping to mitigate

00:07:56: Yeah, right.

00:07:58: And still also adding mineral salt into water requires that you do this in certain boundaries and it's essential.

00:08:07: so our whole approach continuously monitors the environment and identifies how much salt we can actually put on top to existing levels.

00:08:18: First and foremost, not to run this process the other way around because it also works.

00:08:24: And you have precipitation of calcium carbonate.

00:08:27: that CO₂ goes away.

00:08:29: so for sure we want to avoid any negative harm in ecosystem around us.

00:08:37: We are putting a lot effort on partnering with research institutes whole setup and the reactor based systems close system where we monitor all variables in display.

00:08:51: And can also press a stop button, incase realize okay here we cross the boundary.

00:08:56: Gotcha!

00:08:58: You talked about it few minutes ago that you basically take CO₂ from point sources.

00:09:08: so either biogenic or fossil CO₀.

00:09:15: correct to assume that your technology ultimately would sit where those emissions take place or how will they play out?

00:09:25: That's the advantage of our technology.

00:09:27: In a way we offer an innovative carbon capture and storage solution, unlike traditional methods.

00:09:35: for instance you apply an amine scrubbing then liquefy CO-tude transported via pipeline or vessel injection point and then put it underground.

00:09:47: We do all in one step.

00:09:49: so we position our equipment close to the chimneys, we extract the exhaust gas scrub the CO-II out and let this hardening of water happen on the ground.

00:10:00: that also means we need water closer to the chimneys which is more limiting at this time.

00:10:07: for our approach On top we need limestone um, material which is widely available.

00:10:15: still we have to transport it.

00:10:17: And so we are also seeking for locations that have close proximity to a limestone quarry or logistics hub that can transport this with very small footprint

00:10:30: right?

00:10:31: So what are ideal locations for you then?

00:10:33: in terms of that geographic spread

00:10:37: Ideals are emission points close to river estuaries, larger ones or coastlines where we can actually play and our go-to market happens with partners from the wastewater treatment sectors.

00:10:55: First technology is actually a west of Hamburg in the largest wastewater treatment plant here north Germany.

00:11:02: that's sitting next And the second one will go to Kiel, which sits on the Baltic Sea and has an outlet into the Baltics sea.

00:11:11: Still we are in there.

00:11:13: area of the coastal systems

00:11:17: Yeah But turning this around then that means sort of In terms if you're going to market now You have images just two locations in Germany but ultimately your location or country agnostic right it could be Could be anywhere global Because it's a global issue that you're tackling, there is no limiting factor in terms of... You need to adjust your technology to local regulations.

00:11:43: For example if we think about energy market or grid technology plays they are always so reliant on how the energy markets work in specific countries.

00:11:52: So adapting your technology To a certain market is huge undertaking for you.

00:11:58: It's more a plug and play solution right.

00:12:00: ultimately unique ingredients that mentioned so see to water limestone, And then it works.

00:12:06: I could even argue doing this in Germany probably almost crazy as we have pretty tight regulation.

00:12:14: There's probably places where it is more needed, right?

00:12:18: And yeah true.

00:12:19: On the other side we're also aware of let us say benefits for regulation and understanding.

00:12:24: if you can bring to life here or believe that works there then its much easier to transport this as well in other locations proving that it underwent high regulatory efforts which gives confidence on this application procedure.

00:12:41: But you're right.

00:12:42: I mean in the end It's one of the solutions which we believe and to fight against climate change And that has to be global.

00:12:53: Yeah, yeah, and I mean emissions are a global so it sort of what I said before instead Of it.

00:12:59: ultimately also really does matter where?

00:13:01: You wait tackle these missions as long as you tackle them and remove them from From the atmosphere so contribute mitigating climate change.

00:13:09: there I just want to spend one more question sort of on your customer profiles.

00:13:19: What's their main motivation, is it a regulatory push?

00:13:23: To say i have to do this and stop emitting because they are being pressured by shareholders for example the cement industry as an inherent carbon-emitting business.

00:13:37: You know, if we want to contribute to mitigating climate change when you do something this seems like a very smart approach.

00:13:42: So what's the main driver?

00:13:44: What do you see in the conversations that you have?

00:13:48: I need to put it a bit wider and speak shortly about the business model on the markets reacting so global carbon markets are separate either involuntary carbon market or compliance carbon markets.

00:14:01: The main difference is of the cases, where voluntary carbon markets mainly focus on carbon removals.

00:14:12: The compliance market's focused mainly on fossil emissions and a reduction in them.

00:14:17: We have decided to start our journey into the voluntary carbon market To produce so-to speak negative emissions from the avoidance of biogenic CO₂ emissions into air And translating this into carbon credits.

00:14:35: Customers in this segment are widely, let's say voluntary players at the time.

00:14:44: Mostly organized and larger consortia.

00:14:47: The biggest buyer on his market is Microsoft with a very rigid self-defined agenda to become net zero by twenty three.

00:14:58: so they buy extensively on the voluntary carbon market that other tech players are following them.

00:15:03: We have, for instance, sold to consortia like Frontier Climate or Miki Wire.

00:15:08: Or Air-minus Killerton Fund and use these players who are Shopify, Klaner, Stripe in this segment.

00:15:16: They're driven on the one side by their motivation too come to net zero for their own remaining emissions.

00:15:25: On the other side, some of them also see a potential market arising there.

00:15:29: so larger financial institutions or insurance companies putting their stakes in there moving into the compliance markets.

00:15:40: There is more focus on Fossil emissions so like lime or cement and we focus on so-called hard to bathe players.

00:15:49: Yeah, that means industries that emits.

00:15:52: you too link to their processes.

00:15:54: when you burn cement or burn lime You take calcium carbonate which is ca co three?

00:16:02: And then your drive out one CO two molecules.

00:16:05: If you want to have this product, CO₂ comes with it.

00:16:09: And

00:16:10: naturally we can't do anything about

00:16:11: it right?

00:16:12: It's chemistry!

00:16:13: So it is pure chemistry.

00:16:15: and then the question how will you extract the CO₀ and what should be done with that?

00:16:19: Currently its mainly conventional carbon capture storage solutions with underground storage being offered here also from a legal standpoint allowed too.

00:16:30: This where we offer something else for industry players.

00:16:33: so we are partnering intensively with limestone and lime companies because we on the one side need their product, limestone.

00:16:42: And then site products from lime burning.

00:16:45: On the other side We can also offer solution which they can deploy using their own ingredients Which is nice in turning them more into a climate preserver than actually a polluter.

00:16:57: So this helping

00:16:59: You replace

00:17:00: key role here.

00:17:01: so you puts also a new compliance market into play for the, for carbon removals.

00:17:08: This is new and this will also help to derive more standards in two.

00:17:14: carbon removers provide also compliance here.

00:17:19: And once you have those conversations with the work choose the two full question.

00:17:30: apart from the tech companies shaping that markets we mentioned Strype, Klana and so on.

00:17:38: Microsoft obviously but thinking maybe about the more traditional hard to obeyed sectors what's their sentiment?

00:17:47: because from my perspective they've been looking for solutions for quite some time But maybe they haven't found profitable easy-to-operate good solutions yet.

00:18:00: So how do these conversations play out?

00:18:02: Are saying, oh finally someone offers a solution that we can work with and you know yes let's go or watch the sentiment.

00:18:09: then I'll ask the second question just afterwards.

00:18:12: In a nutshell i would shortly say yes that's exactly what has happened.

00:18:16: um uh We have been working with the international lime association in different lime burning companies for them so they were really positively struck by.

00:18:32: Obviously we're a startup so were in the place of three years more or less.

00:18:39: We founded our company's technologies currently in the technology readiness level which would describe as seven system, which is an operation.

00:18:50: still.

00:18:51: it requires substantial scaling and more development.

00:18:56: And this is also what these industrial players see.

00:18:59: in a nutshell, we can ask ourselves why have chosen the voluntary carbon market to enter?

00:19:03: It's mainly for generate early revenues from let's say also already prototype equipment, maturing our technology and scaling it.

00:19:14: And bring into a level where industrial corporations they are cool.

00:19:17: this is your footprint.

00:19:18: This what you have been able to prove in the field?

00:19:22: This is all ready.

00:19:22: how we've developed your technology now I see if stable matured technologies that can be brought to operations which we can deploy.

00:19:30: That exactly were there.

00:19:32: so did they see solution?

00:19:35: enthusiastic about this solution, they see also the way we still have to go.

00:19:42: Yeah and I guess part of that is also in bringing in revenues early on.

00:19:48: it reduces your need sort of as you're using natural principles and the science behind this is relatively straightforward.

00:20:03: Yes, it still needs more engineering, more improvements or scaling but ultimately... It's a chemical process that your building on And feels like very capital efficient way to go about rather than trying to pioneer in really been proven or sort of works at lab scale, but not at industrial scale.

00:20:30: That's exactly what we believe in.

00:20:32: so comparing us to conventional carbon capture and storage We see a benefit both an operational cost and also capital expenditure because we just skip out steps And we have no needs for heavy infrastructures including big pipelines over thousands of kilometers.

00:20:49: I'm still is hardware.

00:20:50: as you said The big paradox in the whole climate tech business and also the investment schemes into it is that there are many players which have experience with startups, especially when they're out of software.

00:21:06: And this scalability potential of softwares... When you do hardwares different You follow different routes and hardware development.

00:21:15: as I said It's more capital intensive even though ours lower than others, still it's kind of intensive.

00:21:25: So we rely on a business model in the term which is asset-lite.

00:21:30: so we will work with partners and still they have to invest at the end get their returns then out off approach.

00:21:39: That would be my second question that I mentioned before and i think you hinted towards.

00:21:43: but let's just stay there for quite infrastructure, quite investment heavy.

00:21:52: You need pipelines you need sort of supporting equipment.

00:21:56: maybe can expand on that because this would have been the other part of solution.

00:22:00: to say look if a player let's say limestone or someone in the limestone space says right I want reduce my emissions and instead turning into startup i want go down more conventional route.

00:22:14: what they experience?

00:22:16: If they said yes CCS is something

00:22:19: Maybe it's good to look at the bigger sister, the cement industry which is just in this transition path.

00:22:26: I've been to Oslo last year and Briewig has a large cement factory from company called Heidelberg Materials And they are first one who go live with their CCS process.

00:22:37: It's four hundred million invested into an amine scrubbing technology for these four thousand tons of CO² They emit every year.

00:22:46: It's from an OPEX perspective somewhere in the range of two hundred to two hundred fifty euros a ton just to extract the CO-II and to liquefy.

00:22:56: Then there are huge vessels standing on the harbour side, then there is a ship being built that every second day brings out the CO‑II and carries it into underground storage for so called longboat project in Norway where and ninety-nine percent purified CO₂ is injected geologically for about a hundred euro a ton plus minus.

00:23:22: The state of Norway invests heavily into this whole project, let's say has strong motivation to do so.

00:23:31: So what you see from there, it's a massive investment not only in the capturing technology but also in the second part which is the whole injection pipeline or vessel transport and so on.

00:23:44: A huge industry has to evolve And somebody has to take these investments.

00:23:50: Partially they are done by states partially They're done by big oil and gas companies.

00:23:56: still There's remaining bit and all of them obviously want to earn money with that and we believe that this might work for large emissions, like a couple of hundred thousand tons or even megatons.

00:24:09: But what if you only have fifty-thousand tons which is typical lime kiln?

00:24:14: What if no boat comes to pick up your CO²?

00:24:17: so...what are you doing with

00:24:19: it?".

00:24:20: Something we hear, so let's say the lime industry is largely medium-sized of family owned businesses.

00:24:27: So they are very scared off of the investments that about to come and they're scared that it become part of a big machinery which can't control but which they need to survive.

00:24:38: And this where they stand.

00:24:40: I think others also standing there.

00:24:42: We've been talking two ways incinerations Which were largely municipal at least in Europe.

00:24:49: They struggle at the same point.

00:24:50: So they think their box to say The dock through hand over this you too, and they hope that a ship might come.

00:24:59: it's good

00:25:01: Yeah It's good after hope that yeah,

00:25:05: so is good to have open right?

00:25:07: And we I mean in principle believe its.

00:25:10: for many This convention approaches are very good solution.

00:25:12: We need that or so it can just not be the only solution.

00:25:17: yep

00:25:17: Yeah, it leaves out sort of other place.

00:25:20: Out-of-the-equation where the big scale infrastructure just doesn't work.

00:25:23: I think for what you described and You know The case is a good one.

00:25:27: if you already have Hydrovectorment or high back materials that's probably a large emitter.

00:25:35: It's a large sort of industrial complex there.

00:25:37: so all of sudden makes sense to build the infrastructure To make sure those remissions are removed.

00:25:43: but everyone around that or as a part of the ecosystem, and we need to find solutions.

00:25:51: That I think brings me next question very naturally which is you mentioned two projects up-and-coming in Germany already so maybe give us some insight into how far your company was established almost three years ago now at year RL seven.

00:26:10: So what's journey been like?

00:26:12: What's ahead for you?

00:26:13: We have

00:26:15: As initially said, our co-founder Jens had a research project that he resided in Hamburg and we have taken this out of the first project.

00:26:24: We scaled it with our prototype which was built here at our garage – in Hamburg, in the middle of the city or backyard.

00:26:33: so we scale to a size that is able on a nominal value to capture and store sixty tons of CO².

00:26:40: This is what we tested in the garage, then put it into container to have a mobile and validated this approach on different wastewater treatment plants all around Germany.

00:26:52: The result was promising and further upgraded technology now installed this first prototype in Hedlingen.

00:27:00: that's the wastewater treatment plant here west of Hamburg.

00:27:04: their our first solution as operational which just validated and approved by our certifier, which is Isometric.

00:27:11: They gave a stamp that our approach works in that we deliver negative emissions with our approach.

00:27:18: It's a small unit though, so sixty tons nominal capacity.

00:27:23: And it is more attack-proof still.

00:27:25: also on this smaller scale we are able to produce negative emissions and that was important.

00:27:30: We have taken the learnings out of validation as well.

00:27:33: what were doing here in Hedling To further scale and improve our processes.

00:27:38: So next unit is just construction And our partner, most of the hardware is already built and we're in a construction process to connect all the pipes.

00:27:50: This unit will have one thousand tons nominal capacity and it'll go to Kiel also known as Waste World Treatment Plan.

00:27:57: So what they do on the waste world treatment plan?

00:27:59: They incinerate sludge gas and produce energy for their plant.

00:28:04: We capture the flue-gas out this incineration process and extract CO².

00:28:09: The next unit goes there And then out of this experience we will further extend the unit in here and complement it, make it fully industrial and scalable.

00:28:20: Then go into different pathways on one side to remain with biogenic mirrors and parallel start working with first industrial most likely line producers

00:28:34: too.

00:28:34: I think you made a really good case Earlier there that, you know the fit is really good.

00:28:40: It leads a limestone for the process.

00:28:42: The companies have the raw materials needed For the processor out of a sudden.

00:28:51: So if we were to speak in three or five years again Where do think it's always hard To look at?

00:28:58: I guess Three years from now You wouldn't have paid attention If this was where your are today.

00:29:03: if you can wish in anything, everything goes according to plan for you.

00:29:06: How would that look?

00:29:10: Our main motivation is scaling not because of becoming large and big but the sake of removing CO₂.

00:29:17: so it's not necessarily turning into profitable operation as sub taking reasonable steps to scale and we believe that a good scaling potential of our technologies in the vicinity are fifty-two, two hundred thousand tons units.

00:29:34: So it's what they're aiming for.

00:29:36: by twenty thirty We want to operate around fifteen sites removing more than half million tons of CO₂ annually And become one of the leading providers in global carbon markets.

00:29:49: That is can bring us in the position to scale further and let's say spread of technology for them.

00:29:55: This will involve roughly a hundred planet years, that is what we believe.

00:29:59: it helps then also expand internationally beyond The project were having at the moment.

00:30:03: so next our projects are currently talking projects in Switzerland and Norway.

00:30:09: this already how we grow from Europe.

00:30:12: take

00:30:17: I think...I like what you just said, scaling not for the ambition of pure scale and size but really for impact.

00:30:30: For removing that cover right now admitted to the atmosphere That in turn it links back too which is set at very beginning.

00:30:42: You had a good career at Airbus impact in terms of, you know, ever since I guess one of those success stories that we have in Europe as a sort of industrial company now being the category leader compared to Boeing for sort-of in the aircraft industry.

00:31:08: And she gave it up and decided to go different ways.

00:31:11: so... That always find motivating and inspirational.

00:31:17: What is it that keeps you going and drives?

00:31:20: You mentioned your a bit older than I guess most traditional startup funders, if you were to think of start up on an AI tool.

00:31:30: They wouldn't paint the picture but they would paint probably a picture of a twenty-two year old now.

00:31:36: And yet you've chosen this pathway.

00:31:38: so what's it that actually drives beyond just removing the carbon?

00:31:46: As a father of young kids, there's always the question that you ask yourself what remains when I leave.

00:31:52: and it was one of the key reasons why i left Airbus in the end because at feeling that um...I couldn't leave my mark.

00:31:59: so there were so much change.

00:32:00: And love changed.

00:32:01: but if the changes ruling out anything I had left then with certain point-of time.

00:32:08: I have to feel like its just waste.

00:32:12: Let's say lifetime I have here.

00:32:14: It was well-paid and it's a nice company But I didn't have the feeling I could let's say leave something behind that I wanted And I want to leave something for my kids, and then fighting forward That I used to get to know or to have the same or something similar For them.

00:32:32: and its not easy in these days too.

00:32:34: keep this belief and fight for us especially if we see that the projection of our emissions is running up and let's say, degradation of biodiversity moving on.

00:32:47: So now we need to take opportunities keeping me, so I believe that we have to turn the tide for a little bit future and removes you too where it matters most at this point of time.

00:33:01: And that keeps me motivated in this also DNA or what were doing at Planetiers and what guys are acting on It doesn't mean that we do not have all our Let's say individual believes what is compliant with nature and what isn't, I think i don't want to become a preacher.

00:33:20: I took this decision for myself.

00:33:22: that was driving me.

00:33:24: my motivations not too convince thousands of people that am now the right person in death how you have do it.

00:33:30: so its name your decisions.

00:33:32: I looked for myself and took some other decisions as well, which is good.

00:33:36: Which feels good to me And...I believe that i can make a difference.

00:33:42: That feels much better than working in ergo the old days

00:33:47: Because you just mentioned something interesting there?

00:33:55: How do they stay hopeful?

00:33:56: because of how you phrased it It could easily turn into something like Investments are rising, ecosystems are collapsing and the planetary boundaries.

00:34:05: if we look at them you know each year.

00:34:07: We're reporting more and more progress but in the wrong direction.

00:34:11: so things are getting worse rather than better.

00:34:15: How do they stay hopeful?

00:34:17: And motivated?

00:34:18: I mean i think what he just mentioned with your kids that can very much relate to as a father.

00:34:23: well it's defining moment to say, think about you kids be like oh wow what kind of legacy?

00:34:30: What do I want leave behind.

00:34:33: And yet with all the doom and gloom that we see every day how they stay or keep their motivation beyond that sort vision or hard-to-grasp aspect leaving a better future for your children behind.

00:34:49: I would put it twofold.

00:34:51: first i believe in technology.

00:34:56: the future is not static and it's another a static evolution of what we see today.

00:35:01: And then you just degrade from, uh...what do you see?

00:35:03: But things evolve and some move in one direction ,some in other.

00:35:09: Still technology can make difference!

00:35:12: That was also what history has proven us.

00:35:15: that motivates me.

00:35:18: I've been to Düsseldorf.

00:35:19: We won the German Sustainability Award and there was a very nice panel discussion with Johann Rochström, which is that of Meijer Grüppel and Luisa Neubauer.

00:35:28: A similar question was asked for them – I liked his answer from Johan Rochsturm who said he's speaking about planetary boundaries.

00:35:40: many of these boundaries have past tipping points which are irreversible.

00:35:44: so change is continuing and accelerating many respects.

00:35:50: He answered that he's surprised by the persistence of the planet, also the adaptation to adapt to this situation.

00:35:58: so it seems there are some more stress levels in which the planet can absorb a certain extent.

00:36:05: That doesn't mean we should stop our efforts but means still enough hope for action despite let us say partially also quite dark predictions.

00:36:18: And the other statement which came out of there is that, um... The best moment to do something it's just now because there won't be a better movement at any point in time where we have more time and let us say freedom to think and act – It's just NOW!

00:36:37: That's what's getting motivated

00:36:41: everyday.

00:36:42: hopeful note to end this conversation on.

00:36:45: the best time to act is now, you know yesterday would have been better but today's day so.

00:36:51: thank you so much Frank for your time

00:36:54: and

00:36:54: the inspiration.

00:36:55: The insights into Planetiers fingers crossed that all ambitions come true.

00:37:01: I'm looking forward to seeing you succeed in seeing you remove all of those that cover from the atmosphere.

00:37:07: fingers crossed i guess both your future, my future and then now I can manage all this future.

00:37:13: We can only wish you success in that you will

00:37:16: succeed.".

00:37:17: Thanks a lot Jan!

00:37:18: Great questions and it was really fun to be here and talk to you... Yeah i'm keeping my fingers crossed as well also for let's say the podcast and people at Reaches and maybe thoughts and stimulates.

00:37:32: thanks a lot thank you.