Trygve Mongstad - Over Easy Solar

00:00:01: Welcome to the Rooted in Change podcast.

00:00:05: Hey everyone, my name is Jan and you're listening through The Rooted In Change podcast.

00:00:08: this show features European clean tech champions And their solutions to tackle the climate crisis.

00:00:13: today's guest is Tricbe CEO and founder at over easy solar.

00:00:18: Now we've discussed solar panels and PV quite a bit on these podcasts and they have become Mainstream I would say of last year.

00:00:27: but there are still two challenges.

00:00:30: One is matching solar production to when the grid actually needs it.

00:00:33: Solar panels produce most during lunchtime, whereas demand is highest in the morning and evening.

00:00:40: Also as we know not all roofs are suited for PV solutions And that's exactly what Overeasy Solar is tackling.

00:00:46: Instead of traditional tilted rooftop panels they install vertical double-sided solar panels That generate power from both sides.

00:00:55: By facing them east and west, they maximise energy production right during morning.

00:00:59: And evening peak hours when demand is highest.

00:01:01: We've had out exactly how this works in just a moment.

00:01:05: Welcome.

00:01:06: Thank you Jan.

00:01:07: Very nice to be here with you.

00:01:08: Before we start diving into the whole topic around Production and vertical solar panels Facing them east-west Peak Hours of Solar Production I want to know who you are as a person, so if you could introduce yourself to the audience.

00:01:28: that'd be lovely.

00:01:29: Thank You!

00:01:30: Nice to have this personal touch on the intro of your podcast.

00:01:33: I've been enjoying some other podcasts.

00:01:36: i listened too.

00:01:38: Yeah well...I'm a guy who's attracted to doing difficult things and trying to push the boundaries And do new things Things That Haven't Been Done Before.

00:01:52: I'm also very driven by working to find solutions... ...to the climate crisis, and that's kind of a path that I've chosen in my career.

00:02:01: So i have a background as a physicist.. ..I have a PhD in material science for solar panels but after working for several years at the lab.... ....I wanted it get more impact.

00:02:14: so I started working more physically products and solar installations.

00:02:20: I work as an entrepreneur, one year in...I started the company in Malawi in Africa of Grid Solar Company And yeah now i enjoy the speed of startup life The impact that we can have creating these new companies

00:02:43: Which I think a lot of people actually love about founding their own company, right?

00:02:49: It's sort of this it's recurring theme on the podcast that.

00:02:53: People who've worked in research and labs is great to really dive into your topic an understand it too well at full extent or as much possible but then translating that research into The real world outside of the labs and university space academia.

00:03:12: It's often is often hard and I think this where the startup life comes.

00:03:17: it comes in Where you do see?

00:03:20: The impact of what to do every day relatively fast even if it doesn't always have to work out, but he'd.

00:03:25: we have a sense of ownership and Maybe the ability too to influence.

00:03:33: The climate crisis in a positive way to Help

00:03:36: as very different mindset than very different works situation for sure.

00:03:43: And as you mentioned the your academic career was this when?

00:03:48: You came up with a solution for over easy solar or how did it go about finding This?

00:03:54: well, we're identifying in this interesting concept of rethinking.

00:03:59: solar panels are solar production.

00:04:02: No actually my My research work was more in the direction of material science, so thin film solver materials also some battery materials.

00:04:15: But then as I mentioned i went out of a research job and worked as a solver-in-solar.

00:04:21: And that's one other thing.

00:04:23: So basically three things that drove me to developing this solution.

00:04:28: One is the practical experience from working on the rooftops.

00:04:32: Then I also had a couple of years where I worked as an advisor to building owners and architects who wanted to implement solar on buildings.

00:04:42: And then my R&D background, when following the technology trends... And just when I started in twenty-twenty one, this was more or less at the transition of where solar panels used to be monofacial and just receive sunlight from on side.

00:05:00: To becoming bifacial and now basically almost all solar panels that are on the market are bifacial.

00:05:08: This made it possible make a new solution That ticked off many boxes Where i had seen problems with my work life.

00:05:17: Right and based on this experience that you just shared.

00:05:21: so, we're installing panels yourself and advising home owners.

00:05:27: And others.

00:05:28: was this where I did?

00:05:29: You identified the gap that rethinking sort of traditional solar panel were it's on rooftop tilted a better solution with vertical ones or what is click made to think well should start as company.

00:05:48: Well, my main motivation was to try and find a way to prefabricate... ...a solution for flat roofed up solar mounting.

00:05:58: So that were some of the starting points because I had been working so many years on flat rooftop solar mounting always bringing mounting system rails, solar panels, ballasts tons different drawings people in the roof.

00:06:14: It was so complex and it felt old fashioned.

00:06:18: So I thought there must be a solution to prefab solar for flat roof tops.

00:06:24: avoid the issue of ballast, very detailed engineering drawings also making easily accessible for maintenance by this modularity.

00:06:41: So, yeah that was my main motivation.

00:06:45: and then vertical solar panels have their own benefits that are kind of a bonus that I've come up.

00:06:53: at the same time

00:06:55: Yeah!

00:06:55: And maybe let's talk a bit about vertical solar panels because i don't know how many of the listeners are familiar with that category.

00:07:06: you can explain, introduce them to the audience.

00:07:10: Yeah it's kind of a new way of thinking solar mounting and is unfamiliar for many because we are so used to think that solar panels should be tilted facing the sun or maybe following the buildings geometry.

00:07:28: but yeah our product is this prefab unit.

00:07:31: So we have four small vertical solar panels on a rack.

00:07:37: So it kind of looks like bookshelf lying underground.

00:07:41: and these small vertical panels, they receive sunlight from both sides.

00:07:49: so actually the sum of energy yield is quite good.

00:07:52: It can be better than tilted solar panels in many cases.

00:07:57: And this prefab units again On the construction side easy to mount, easy to plan with.

00:08:04: They're free of ballast they don't need to be fixed on the rooftop because if their geometry is a product that you have very low wind loads.

00:08:13: and so yeah those are the technical aspects or products let's say

00:08:21: right?

00:08:22: And where would your solution literally typically sit.

00:08:27: what ideal use cases were?

00:08:30: You would go for vertical solar panels rather than the tilted ones or are they?

00:08:37: Can you say sort of one roof is more suited towards tilted and the other roof Is more suited for at their vertical once?

00:08:44: so what's sort of The distinction between those two

00:08:48: now.

00:08:48: Well, we have developed a product for flat rooftop solar mounting And flat rooftops.

00:08:54: you find basically everywhere in the world different kinds of buildings So that's the space we enter into, but they have a special good fit in some niches or subcategories of flat rooftop solar.

00:09:12: One category is green roofs – that means rooftops with vegetation on them.

00:09:19: and these vertical panels are open structures so plants below can receive sunlight The rain and the evaporation, all of these functions that you should have from this green roof are not in conflict with solar panels to say.

00:09:37: So it's a very beautiful combination!

00:09:40: You get good area usage for urban areas actually... ...the defaults should be both green roofs & solar for all urban areas.

00:09:52: It's a

00:09:52: perfect synergy in that case, right?

00:09:54: Because normally with then the tilted ones you're not able to have the green roof underneath or sort of even if it's kind of

00:10:03: conflict of light and water dynamics.

00:10:07: And it's actually quite a big niche.

00:10:11: So Germany is probably the most well-developed market for green roofs, so about ten percent of all new flat roofs are green and that makes up to about ten million square meters built every year which would be gigawatts solar opportunity.

00:10:30: yeah right?

00:10:31: It's pretty sizable.

00:10:34: Another category is lightweight rooftops that cannot take the weight of a ballasted solar solution and or have maintenance needs, so mainly retrofit on existing buildings.

00:10:51: They don't often have the capacity for adding the weight to a ballasted solar solution uncertain maintenance needs.

00:11:02: So you don't want to do too much the way.

00:11:06: I wanted a kind of non intrusive solution that allows for also maintenance during the lifetime of the solar installation, and it's also super good match with our product.

00:11:16: Right?

00:11:17: Would that also entail historic buildings?

00:11:19: or what are your thoughts about that?

00:11:21: because they often have specifications around the aesthetics again right in I guess with vertical PV.

00:11:29: In the end, not so many historic buildings have rooftops.

00:11:34: So it's more for newer like yeah... Buildings built after the sixties basically and also just to come back to vertical solar a bit more in detail in general of course you can use vertical solar panels Not only on rooftops but also on the ground.

00:11:53: we deliver particularly for rooftop installations, but vertical solar in itself is super interesting as you mentioned at the beginning because they have a different production profile.

00:12:04: So you produce more energy and typically it has one phase to the east of the west.

00:12:10: so get an energy peak production in the morning and then these are times We need more energy in the grid while, in the middle of the day and summertime.

00:12:26: In Europe now we basically have enough energy coming from solar already so it's better for the grid.

00:12:34: you also get a better payback because the prices are higher than during the midday And you'll also get better yields during winter months which is also where we need more.

00:12:51: So that's more the generic benefits of vertical solar, whether it's on a rooftop or around the ground.

00:13:00: And you can kind of get the same benefit also from facade mounting of solar panels as well.

00:13:08: and what's your?

00:13:10: What's the feedback off?

00:13:10: The market being?

00:13:12: because Whenever I see your solution online, or yeah mostly online i think for now.

00:13:20: And...I feel like this is such a clever and smart way to go about it!

00:13:25: Yet in the real world it still feels sort of their standard.

00:13:29: maybe it's the tilted version?

00:13:31: Maybe also because the roost that I'm looking at are more tilted so there might be a combination as well.

00:13:39: But how do people react to this new category of PV?

00:13:46: What's their feedback been.

00:13:48: Well, it's a lot of curiosity and excitement about the solution but we've not so long on the market since two years basically since we launched the product commercially on the market and we built up first with some sales in Norway, now we're expanding internationally.

00:14:11: But yeah these problems with the weight of conventional solar those are well known for most solar insolvers and building owners maintenance needs like.

00:14:24: it's easy to instantly recognize that this bringing in something new that's valuable to many buildings.

00:14:32: So we're getting somewhere, and we see increasing sales in many markets.

00:14:39: And this effect of the power prices... The time production is also something.

00:14:46: when I started these five years ago nobody really understood what I was talking about.

00:14:53: But now we have zero or negative energy prices during the middle of

00:15:22: Well instances where we just produce so much PV.

00:15:27: or you know green green electricity from PV during those peak hours, especially spring-summer time.

00:15:33: that doesn't match up with the production out of a sudden.

00:15:37: You have the whole question around grid stability and so on.

00:15:41: Grid pricing prices for electricity curtailment fees And I think while we obviously need even more solar, the storage capacity and so on.

00:15:54: And that's just not matching up in this speed of deployment yet.

00:15:58: So I think adding a category that matches the consumption pattern a whole lot better is really smart and helpful will accelerate or contribute to that role at a lot work?

00:16:18: Yeah, I think so.

00:16:19: And it is a huge hurdle for our industry and the society.

00:16:27: basically now that we have these issues with zero energy negative pricing That highly affects especially conventional tilted solar panels because We still need to decarbonize.

00:16:45: not by far done on the decarbonization job.

00:16:49: And there's only that much hydropower or wind power we can build, so finding solutions to make sure that solar works and is financed in the future it very important.

00:17:03: You mentioned you had started in Norway but now are internationalizing.

00:17:08: how does this look?

00:17:11: bigger markets for you just because of the infrastructure, but also I guess the sheer size.

00:17:17: Maybe we can paint a picture for us how internationalizing out-of-Norway looks over easy?

00:17:24: Yeah well that's one of the curses and opportunities.

00:17:29: coming from small country in the north maybe especially working with solar become global or look outside of Norway for the markets.

00:17:41: Be international relatively fast?

00:17:43: Yeah, so while German companies maybe can grow inside Germany For many years we need to already from start.

00:17:52: think International.

00:17:54: So yeah We're growing our footprint in Germany and Netherlands and Switzerland especially those three countries with come pretty far.

00:18:04: But we see interest and we've done first sales in USA, Canada.

00:18:11: And also some recent sales in Asia.

00:18:16: so it's a unique product.

00:18:20: when the right customer finds it then its much.

00:18:25: Right because we haven't really touched upon this yet.

00:18:29: who buys your solution?

00:18:31: and who would install?

00:18:33: typically a vertical visit the building owner or is it?

00:18:38: The architect that sort of integrates, how does that work.

00:18:42: Yeah well um It's normally uh Building Owner Architects Or like energy advisor That identifies the need let's say And quite often reaches out to us through different channels.

00:19:02: But then we sell through solar installers.

00:19:06: and yeah, coming back also to the kind of how-to build internationally.

00:19:11: We've chosen a partnership based model so... ...we depend on local Solar Installers and the local partnerships in order get those installations planned and installed.

00:19:25: So yeah, if a building owner or energy advisor for portfolio reaches out to us we normally then would connect with local solar installer who can deliver complete solution.

00:19:44: And how far you have come on this journey?

00:19:48: I think what he just mentioned also is the ability.

00:19:54: For example, if you're a German company and can scale in Germany.

00:19:58: You write that this is in many ways easier.

00:20:03: at the same time I would also say it may limit your ability afterwards to go international.

00:20:11: It might just be more helpful to think about how one could grow internationally right from the start because competition is also an international one doesn't sleep.

00:20:25: So I think that's a nice way to, well you know it is a lot more complex and harder to go into different markets at the same time but might just be ultimately more rewarding.

00:20:37: so how far would say have come on your journey since starting in companies five years ago?

00:20:42: Where are?

00:20:44: Yeah, it took us about three years with R&D in prototyping and setting up the supply chain.

00:20:51: And making sure everything works and that product is certified testing wind loads, wind tunnel testing.

00:21:01: of course they're electronical.

00:21:04: those things takes a while.

00:21:06: So now we've been two years on the market, delivered to about sixty projects in more than fifteen countries.

00:21:20: and it's old types of buildings and sizes.

00:21:24: So it's like, you can be residential building or houses with flat rooftops.

00:21:30: It could be small offices schools fire stations up to huge logistics buildings in warehouses.

00:21:40: so now we have produced around three megawatts of our solution.

00:21:50: And it's been delivered to modern, to cover more than twenty thousand square meters of rooftops.

00:21:56: and so yeah definitely starting to get an impact but still in the very early days commercial

00:22:04: speaking I guess i guess its both right like you start to see the impact because six insulation in fifteen countries is already quite a bit.

00:22:13: there's always more that can be done and what it could look like.

00:22:18: That is nice to feel!

00:22:20: There was one other thing I wanted to ask, which were are they willing to flagship installations you're particularly proud of?

00:22:28: Or do you want to highlight where we say this is the ideal use case for us or well-recognized building people might be familiar with?

00:22:42: On the green roof side, we don't have any specific flagship project right now.

00:22:48: But many buildings in Germany and atlants especially where our vertical solar solution is combined with a green roof And I think this is beautiful combination.

00:23:03: The projects are residential offices and commercial buildings normally, all different types.

00:23:15: On the flagship side right now I can maybe mention that we have a project in Tromsø in north of Norway that was mounted one year ago.

00:23:27: so that's the biggest project we've delivered to so far.

00:23:30: it is three hundred twenty kilowatts of PV capacity And that's actually one of the other, let's say niches in flat roof solar where vertical performs really well which is in northern areas because you have a lot low angle sun.

00:23:51: So the vertical panels catch the Sun very efficiently and get much higher yield than what we can get with conventional mounting on flat rooftops.

00:24:01: So, yeah.

00:24:03: And now we have a couple of new projects that will be exciting to share news about but not the public quite yet.

00:24:11: Well looking forward to that new slow and then Yeah We'll be in the lookout as an audience and Maybe than this were starting to look ahead.

00:24:23: What's sort of next for you?

00:24:24: because he mentioned sort of?

00:24:25: You know the three years in R&D making sure when tunnel tests say The wiring and the electricity setup works well.

00:24:35: Plus now two years on the commercial side, so you know five years in business.

00:24:41: how will the next three to five years look for you?

00:24:44: And what are you looking forward as a business?

00:24:46: What our next milestones that your working towards too?

00:24:50: yeah we're in the process of establishing more partnerships with installers and reaching out to more building owners.

00:25:00: In Europe, North America at the moment main focus on Europe.

00:25:08: so I think we're on a good track there.

00:25:11: what makes me concerned maybe is more general state of the general situation where we are now.

00:25:23: I do feel that when it comes to sustainable solutions and climate change awareness, working with that... It's not at top-of-the-mind right now for most people but more concerned in a short term.

00:25:46: um problems which of course are very concerning.

00:25:49: uh but yeah basically after our twenty-twenty with covid and then all this instability in the world.

00:25:58: I think we're forgetting about that way.

00:26:01: you were actually in the middle of the energy transition that needs to need to happen.

00:26:06: i mean co two emissions And if we continue on this path, it's going to be a very different world.

00:26:15: We live in one hundred years from now.

00:26:19: so that is my main concern and also interesting how you see the situation here at your angle?

00:26:29: Is there enough awareness or are getting somewhere?

00:26:34: I think probably our last question could keep you up at night for quite some time.

00:26:43: Because I think it's, from my perspective probably both when i talk to founders like you...I feel incredibly motivated and so much is being achieved in niches that wasn't aware of before.

00:27:04: That gives me a lot of hope.

00:27:05: This is ultimately why I started this podcast in the first place, right?

00:27:08: Because i wanted to give the micro to people that work on incredibly smart solutions and thereby just showcasing how far we're getting... And you know your working others..I think it's a beacon off of that!

00:27:27: Then again if you look at overall numbers reaching impact fast enough and that is concerning.

00:27:36: Then again, I've mentioned this on the podcast a while back ago... A big fan of.

00:27:44: Hannah Ritchie has written at least two books.

00:27:50: Both are close to my work computer which was not the end-of-the world!

00:27:58: She uses data in order to highlight you know, what we should focus on and she's now published a second book which is called Clearing the Air.

00:28:12: And takes this quite hopeful and optimistic view of how far we've come.

00:28:16: I think it similar to the work of Hans Rusling in many ways.

00:28:20: although Hans Ruslings wasn't as much focused maybe just on climate issues but rather sort of sustainable development overall he always used data share how far we as a society have come over the last fifty years, whether it's child mortality poverty nutrition access to water and so on.

00:28:46: And I think the impact there is.

00:28:47: data shows that were moving fast at an unprecedented speed in the right direction for many of these things.

00:28:56: Maybe CO₂ emissions are one of the aspects where progress hasn't been as fast, but then I also and then maybe this circles us back to relatively long answer to this very profound question... And i've written or seen recently that even in China and thereby probably globally CO₁ emissions might have peaked.

00:29:23: where you have learned one thing about China over the last, again decade or twenty years or so is how fast progress has been there.

00:29:31: Think of the EV revolution now coming out of China and if they are starting to reduce emissions I think that will have a global impact that we'll actually feel and see.

00:29:40: That's the one thing.

00:29:41: And i think the other thing is although all these crises that we've seen over the past five years and intensified obviously by Russia's attack on Ukraine are that we can move relatively fast if you want to slash, and I think now at a similar stage where were in the spring of twenty-twenty two with the fact that energy prices have gone up again.

00:30:11: And rethinking how we're dependent on fossil fuels it's just great see somehow spurs demand for Sustainable technology.

00:30:26: So the feedback that we had from many of the founders and VCs, they work with is well.

00:30:34: The amount has gone up whether it's for heat pumps PB And so on.

00:30:39: People realize that it's now cheaper to drive an electric car than it is to drive a diesel or petrol car because Prices at the gas station have gone up so much and I think that's quite nice That the sustainability ultimately immediately has become an economic argument that can be solved in one, to say look the smarter solution not just for climate.

00:31:03: To protect the climate but from an economic point of view is to invest in a green solutions.

00:31:10: I think thats quite... That gives me going and that makes me hopeful.

00:31:16: Very good points there, I'm also very optimistic in many ways.

00:31:20: There's a lot of good stuff going on.

00:31:23: One thing i would like to highlight which is super important.

00:31:27: here In Europe we're getting new building regulation That will make it obligatory To mount solar panels constructed already planned from January next year, so it's very soon.

00:31:45: And I think this will change the dynamics of solar quite a lot.

00:31:49: So not only financial decision anymore and i think that is good because as we talked about We need that solar energy getting more.

00:32:04: we will find ways to adapt with flexibility of demand or energy storage, to shift that energy into the hours of day when it's needed.

00:32:14: But I think is a very interesting aspect for solar in Europe now?

00:32:19: Yeah!

00:32:20: Very good point.

00:32:22: and obviously regulation has always been critical driver at the adoption rate of new technology.

00:32:29: We've seen this many other cases as well.

00:32:34: I would like to end this on, we're ending in a high note but still want ask the question because i asked it all my guests is what keeps you going?

00:32:43: You mentioned sort of... It's three years research two-year commercial first installation six installations and fifteen countries.

00:32:54: And yet there are lots more to be done And internationalizing a startup out of Norway is not the easiest thing that you could do, especially in quite competitive market as with solar.

00:33:09: There's easier routes to go about one's life but if chosen this one what it keeps going?

00:33:16: It makes me get up every morning and think hey its another day working at an on-easer over easy solar.

00:33:25: I'm kind of motivated by problems as i said in the beginning and when problems are big but you can manage to find a solution.

00:33:36: You can find something that's not easy to see, what do you find way forward like starting a solar company based in Norway?

00:33:47: And also working together on these kinds solutions or problems within team with strong team spirit.

00:33:55: That's super important for me to get up in the morning.

00:34:01: And also, let me finish off with... The motivation that it brings of working on one of the biggest problems in the world which is climate change and being able to utilize my professional life to develop new solutions.

00:34:22: Yeah, a motivation that I hope also younger generations will have.

00:34:30: We can be good at recycling we can drive an electric car but what you do during your professional life is the... That's the biggest impact you can have.

00:34:40: so choose your career path carefully!

00:34:45: I could agree more and i would say there's always development to change gears into switch tracks as well, which I find quite interesting even though if you feel like you might be stuck in a job that doesn't contribute any sort of sustainable development just yet.

00:35:03: Be on the lookout and then switch gears when the time feels right and you see opportunities arise because you might still learn certain skills that will be helpful afterwards.

00:35:15: it's never too late I would add to this as well.

00:35:21: This was a wonderful and very insightful conversation, thank you so much.

00:35:25: I wish all the best for that scale-up journey.

00:35:28: Fingers crossing will be on the lookout here too see those vertical PV installations now across Europe of course globally.

00:35:36: So Thank You so much for your time!

00:35:38: Thanks a lot Jan.

00:35:39: it's been great conversation.