Johann Liebeton - BioHalo

00:00:01: Welcome to the Rooted in Change podcast.

00:00:05: Hey, everyone!

00:00:05: My name is Jan and you're listening To The Rooted In Change Podcast.

00:00:08: This show features European clean-take champions And their solutions to tackle climate crisis.

00:00:12: Today's guest is Johann CEO and co-founder of Biohalo.

00:00:17: Keeping ship hulls clean of algae or other species without poisoning water Is a massive challenge for marine industry.

00:00:25: In the past, coatings relied often on toxic biocides or PFAS and both of them are facing increasing regulatory pressure.

00:00:34: Now biohalo chooses a different path.

00:00:37: they use biotechnology to create safe eco-friendly coating made from renewable materials And by focusing on biotechnology They produce highly effective barrier that stops that marine growth which prevents ship drag and slashes thereby fuel emissions.

00:00:52: We'll find out how exactly that works with you in just a few minutes.

00:00:56: Welcome!

00:00:57: Thank You Jan for having me, it's pleasure.

00:01:00: Well the pleasure is mine and before we start diving into this really exciting topic and learning more about marine industry biohalo coatings all of them I would like to know bit more about you.

00:01:14: so why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners?

00:01:18: I think a good starting point would be to say that i was very lucky during my school days, and had a few really good teachers.

00:01:29: And um...I- I think these good teachers make me aware that I have a certain curiosity or desire to learn more about biology.

00:01:40: ,and then there was this opportunity for me to go deeper into at the, let's say an organization called Life Science Lab.

00:01:54: At a German research cancer research center that was meant to promote gifted students high school students.

00:02:03: and I think with this my curiosity for biology started.

00:02:07: My latest study in Biology really fall in love.

00:02:16: And during my bachelor's studies of biology, actually STEM started working as a working student for Big German Corporate Code MOOC in the corporate responsibility office.

00:02:28: And corporate responsibility at that time was meaning sustainability and I fall in love with the idea that business can be a forceful good for more sustainable future.

00:02:46: revolution of this biorevolution shouldn't be underestimated.

00:02:50: so in your city to also get some knowledge in the area.

00:02:55: And then I was lucky enough to find out that you could study something like this for a masters and i did exactly that, i studied business administration and bio entrepreneurship

00:03:09: interesting combination.

00:03:10: it's quite an unusual one huh?

00:03:13: Yeah, I think it's a very essential combination actually because if you look at what the century is about in my perspective is acknowledging that scientifically we can do a lot of things with the knowledge that we have gathered so far and implemented.

00:03:37: At the same time the biotech area or let's say business in biology areas is very different from a lot of other businesses.

00:03:47: For example, if you compare software whatsoever?

00:03:50: So I think it makes sense and

00:03:52: do mean that form A sort of this deep innovation takes forever to commercialize.

00:03:58: Is that what your refer to?

00:04:00: was the difference with perspective?

00:04:02: Yeah i think The timeline regulatory how how you find your money to put something forward.

00:04:11: And if, let's say historically the chemical industry has been there before that was a bio-industry in Germany can study business chemistry since decades ago basically because you need to learn that let's say a deep-take area like chemistry or biology are just so much different from, let's see locally traded business only.

00:04:47: And luckily for me in Denmark they're an innovation driven country.

00:04:53: there has as one of their strategic pillars Um, the biotech area and for this reason they have to study program.

00:05:02: And I think it's spot on.

00:05:04: you need some people who understand the scientific side well enough but also the business side Well Enough To make The most out of your innovations to basically bring inventions to the market?

00:05:18: Mm-hmm and i was really eager to learn that.

00:05:23: And I think this also shows you a second thing about myself.

00:05:51: There was this company in Berlin called Optino that basically offered recruitment software for clinical monitors, which are like the people who oversee clinical studies on site.

00:06:04: And during the pandemic because no investor wanted to fund HR software anymore they got into financial trouble and we as a non-profit organization at the moment were aware of their situation And we then made a proposal for very small fee by this startup and integrated into our nonprofit operations to pivot it little bit.

00:06:37: So, we were not longer using the software to find clinical monitors for companies running clinical studies but to help students find their first entry level job in the area of life sciences.

00:06:52: I feel this story shows you a little bit that, uh i like this out-of-the box.

00:06:56: how can we be entrepreneurial and improve our situation thinking?

00:07:01: And um i would say that's basically me that i'm curious about science but i think to have an impact to bring innovation or invention into market you need also understand business side that I like to be at the interface of both.

00:07:18: Right, um...I wouldn't say that i'm a particularly good scientist if you look in my lab work but think I am good.

00:07:27: communication with scientists and they can ask questions for understanding problem or solution is developed there And

00:07:36: potentially even more important, right?

00:07:38: Because I think what you described is that there are often two silos.

00:07:42: Well either it's the business world or its scientific well for what we need in order to move forward with maybe that bridge where we connect those too and

00:07:51: say It's more important but i think We definitely have a lack of people um... Well

00:07:58: ,I would say if this were important because If You stay within your silo Its hard To make That leapfrogging moment or that jump forward.

00:08:08: i think those connecting visionaries and you know it's of course, you can't say that about yourself but its more important than I could say this.

00:08:19: And...I think is crucial because otherwise he's sort-of staying within the realms.

00:08:26: what do you thing is possible?

00:08:28: by connecting these different entities You're able to push things forward.

00:08:33: So I would say it's, those roles are really important and the individuals very important than...

00:08:38: Well no i can live with that argumentation.

00:08:45: When you look why I argued this is a good study program along these same lines right?

00:08:51: I just think all parts of the system.

00:08:54: we also need scientists great science.

00:08:58: And we wouldn't be within the, within that realm if you wouldn't have a passion and love for science and acknowledge the role that science needs to play in order too?

00:09:07: For us to live on more sustainable planet.

00:09:09: but I think it's important not just stay with the realms but sort of break up those silos.

00:09:17: let's turn to biohalo.

00:09:19: so i think you explained well your personal journey or your personal background, who you are.

00:09:25: Where does Biohalo enter that picture?

00:09:28: So

00:09:29: I think the essential connect here is that Biohalos is a spin out of The Technical University Of Denmark of Horizon Europe project and it was developed as a university project And honestly wasn't involved in this at all.

00:09:49: so i come to him scientific or basic science research project.

00:09:59: The researchers asked the question themselves, can we build a metabolism around carbon fluorine bond?

00:10:07: And that's the question did arise because the carbon-fluorine bond is very strong and if you look from an evolutionary of biological perspective on to strong bonds it means or to break something.

00:10:25: And usually if you think about biology, it's not about building something once or breaking something down once.

00:10:30: It is doing this like in a circle forever and so for that reason this type of bond isn't very common in nature.

00:10:43: If you are familiar with the area of chemical so PFAS It is a group of chemicals that are characterized by this carbon-fluorine bonds, especially by carbons attached to two or three fluorine atoms.

00:11:01: And because these bonds are so rarely found in nature... These five chemicals have properties you can't find in nature.

00:11:11: they're basically synthetic molecules.

00:11:14: we've had since let's say a few decades ago like seventy years And this basic research project was, can we somehow create a biologic version of that?

00:11:27: Once they actually were able to establish a monofluorinated compound with bio-organization pathway and look at it.

00:11:37: This compound had very interesting properties.

00:11:42: My co-founder Nicola Spring at the time was a postdoc at the Technical University of Denmark and together with his professor Pablo Nicol, and his fellow postdoc Mariella Menzina.

00:11:59: saw this connect between basic research here that they're finding, there was something unusual.

00:12:06: It has some potential and their curiosity to see if it can be developed into more than just a scientific finding is relevant for the world.

00:12:21: at that point I come in.

00:12:23: Nico is also not only a brilliant scientist and he's also friend of mine, He did give me phone call.

00:12:32: I'm about to find something.

00:12:34: do you want to join us?

00:12:36: And that's how i became the first employer for BioHalo.

00:12:42: later on they asked me to become co-founder as well so Only one on the founding team who hasn't done lab research.

00:12:56: Right?

00:12:58: Well, I don't

00:12:59: know.

00:12:59: well maybe this is a again super crucial that you didn't have to do this part and now You're able to understand the science but didn't actually have two to work or not?

00:13:09: And Okay so understood.

00:13:12: what we're trying to say is would you which he said just Now?

00:13:16: it's Sort of in that realm that your operating end.

00:13:21: And he mentioned the forever chemicals PFAS.

00:13:24: They are forever chemicals because they don't...they don't appear in nature, so sort of.

00:13:28: we've created them In a lab and what you're replicating is sort of doing this.

00:13:35: You try to replicate this from a biological perspective.

00:13:39: So those bonds Those structures could be potentially broken down again thereby that they didn't post biohazard in the cancer risk, for example that PFAS entails.

00:13:54: Is that a correct translation of what you said earlier?

00:13:59: Yeah, spot on.

00:14:00: I wanted to convey here two messages.

00:14:02: first is we are university spin out.

00:14:06: they profit deeply from European funding for basic research.

00:14:11: So I wanted to showcase here, this was actually not started as something when application at the top of their mind in a beginning where project were started and there is really basic research question or application very close.

00:14:28: And second message that i want you convey it's that PFAS pair and polyflonated are collusive stances forever chemicals.

00:14:36: they're defined by carbon atoms that are attached to two or three fluorine atoms.

00:14:42: In this research project, we basically wanted to answer can we create a carbon atom that is only connected to one fluorine atom?

00:14:52: That was the first step.

00:14:53: like Is This Even Possible?

00:14:55: To Incorporate A Fluorine Atom Biologically Into Something Because It's Super Rarely Found And I'm Sure.

00:15:06: And when they were able to do this, what is called the CF-I group or moiety.

00:15:13: They really figured out just some properties that no one thought of before.

00:15:18: and it's quite from a chemical perspective.

00:15:22: if you fluorinate something usually because these strong bonds require harsh environments of traditional flow on chemistry is done under high pressure, high temperature context with catalysts needed most of the time.

00:15:45: Some of them are quite toxic and these this reaction context leads to a let's say all or nothing etch.

00:15:53: so you have no fluorination or you fluorinate everything which leads.

00:15:57: here too there's five chemicals where basically Substitution options are taken and you have poly fluorinated compound.

00:16:09: And based on this kind of chemical background, everyone thought that you need this poly fluorination for all the properties that PFAS has to be announced.

00:16:25: Pablo Nico and Mariela in the lab were working on this.

00:16:30: They found out that if you do a very selective incorporation of fluorine atoms via enzymes, so this biohalogenation or biofluorination... You create only a CF-I group.

00:16:43: CF- I groups are known to be biodegradable.

00:16:47: This comes down to stereochemistry, how easy it is to access for enzymes this bond and the more flowing you have.

00:16:55: The less accessible it basically is for breakdown enzymes.

00:17:01: And so this was kind of Figuring out that?

00:17:07: this old Assumption that you need polyfluoration for all those nice property of PFAS is not entirely correct of fluorination that is biodegradable, meaning also it's non-persistent.

00:17:21: And for this reason doesn't have most of the disadvantages of PFAS like being persistent and being toxic in some cases... It just not true!

00:17:33: This was really at a point where biohater started to say okay actually there's an interesting finding.

00:17:37: they could have some applications.

00:17:39: let's try them.

00:17:41: Then Mark has wonderful institution called Bioinnovation Institute that basically offers pre-seed funding of about five hundred thousand euros for startups who apply if they kind have a certain scientific excellence and good market idea to explore.

00:18:11: And that's how biohalo started.

00:18:13: Biohalo applied for this, what is called venture lab at the Bioinnovation Institute and with this we then incorporated and did go all first steps as entrepreneurs.

00:18:25: Understood!

00:18:26: You talked about the tech side.

00:18:28: I mentioned some applications in my intro to highlight but maybe you can paint a wider picture so finding We can create this biologically and move away

00:18:47: from

00:18:48: certain properties or disadvantages that PFAS has.

00:18:53: What are applications of the Biotechnology platform?

00:18:57: Because I would assume as with PFAS, it's just everywhere right now if you think about where PFAS is involved in every vertical basically what potentially could could think of in terms of our lives.

00:19:14: Is that also true for Biohalo, your approach to creating materials and coatings can be applied?

00:19:24: That's question number one!

00:19:25: Question two then is as with startups focusing everywhere it often a difficult challenge because everyone you're selling to know someone.

00:19:37: so I would assume Honed in on one vertical first to go to market.

00:19:42: I mentioned the marine industry To start within my interest and maybe those two questions, I guess connected How does this look?

00:19:50: And then why have you chosen the Marine Industry to start with?

00:19:54: that's a lot of good questions in our

00:19:56: Sorry

00:19:57: from beginning.

00:19:59: So PFAS is a group of chemicals.

00:20:02: they are very diverse.

00:20:04: They're basically it just unified that all of them have these two or three fluorine atoms attached to carbon atom groups, or mites and probably they are between three hundred and three thousand commercially used PFAS components.

00:20:24: And the group has had theoretically to be bigger than ten thousands.

00:20:28: so it's a big group of chemicals.

00:20:29: So could we really ought to scientifically claim And we hope actually for more competition, because the problem with PFAS is so big and more startup needs to work on replacement.

00:20:47: More big corporates as well would be my core belief here.

00:20:53: The scientific finding that BioHalo had or was done at a university these monofluorinated compounds can increase what is called the water contact angle.

00:21:06: So if you put a water droplet onto the material producing, um... The water droblet doesn't spread very far but it stays basically in droplet that has high-water contact angles so physically tries to minimize the contact with surface.

00:21:31: And this water-contact angle is a proxy for hydrophobicity and for water repellency, based on this finding we decided that initially the coatings area and the surface modification areas looked most promising.

00:21:49: For example you use PFAS today very different surfaces.

00:21:56: You can code, I think some of a common example would be the non-stick pans or waterproof apparel that you use it in electronic coatings to protect electronics from moisture and dust if your for example thing about your sport watch.

00:22:19: so we think that PFAS is As you said, applied in a lot and lots of verticals.

00:22:26: It's really difficult to find some application where we don't use it at all.

00:22:33: At least if you might use the manufacturing process... And based on our finding that can increase the water repellency We would go for the coating area.

00:22:48: The focus question you had is that we saw a lot of interest from the anti-fouling coating segment, so the maritime coating segment.

00:22:58: because in coatings and the maritime space here use basically today biocytes to prevent biofoulling which is the attachment of organisms towards ship hull.

00:23:11: And this biofouling would increase the drag end therefore create a higher fuel consumption or would lead to a high fuel consumption.

00:23:22: So basically there's an economic rationale, to reduce biofouling and in the past they have done this very successfully with biocytes.

00:23:35: but as more regulatory pressure do you use so much biocites?

00:23:39: And just regulator of pressure makes companies since area looking a lot for innovation.

00:23:47: And some of the replacements for biocide, which are silicon based coatings also have environmental disadvantages like for example, silicone oils and fluids.

00:23:59: we sometimes contain PFAS sites where you need surface modification if think that when we make a surface very hydrophobic it's quite impossible for organisms to attach.

00:24:14: So we have the same idea that it could be successful.

00:24:19: Just in our case, It wouldn't by killing organisms but just preventing physically detachment.

00:24:27: and for this reason because we see industry interest.

00:24:32: We say an environmental interests And technological overlap.

00:24:36: you think?

00:24:37: That's interesting market for us.

00:24:39: however the same property of having a water repellent surface is still very interesting in a lot other areas, for example as mentioned and electronics coatings.

00:24:57: And basically we see ourselves as biotech startup who's really good at manufacturing this component being able to use it in various segments, we can even more use unique economics and our favor.

00:25:19: To spread or make it even possible to use these components in normal markets?

00:25:26: And by this having a bigger let's say economical upside for investors but also big impact positively for the society.

00:25:35: so we feel that is a game changer molecule.

00:25:42: don't limit ourselves super strictly to one market, but we speak with the companies who show interest because basically our belief is if there's a company that was interested in innovation and could work together.

00:26:00: This is like the key criteria for us to evaluate whether it makes sense or not.

00:26:09: If someone understands Um, better than us has the distribution lines.

00:26:15: Has to know how and we basically provide this innovative ingredient.

00:26:23: And how far then have you come on?

00:26:24: This journey when I think explain it well sort of both from your journey too Getting the insight into how its deeply rooted in publicly funded research now spinning out a company out of it.

00:26:39: How far have you come on your journey to making that impact?

00:26:43: On our societies or the planet, if you want to use the broadest terms.

00:26:48: Where are you commercially?

00:26:51: That's always tough.

00:26:52: quick question could be asked.

00:26:54: investors like to ask this question all the time right?

00:26:57: how long do You need to be on the market when you will break even?

00:27:02: but I would like To answer in a way.

00:27:06: we We started with an idea at a project level before, and then we got to proof of concept that it can produce this compound.

00:27:18: That has the effect that we believe it have And initially were able produced a few milligrams off this compound by now.

00:27:31: a good progress in my perspective, at least.

00:27:37: Which means that we can produce a few kilograms In a certain time frame which makes us possible to do let's say pilots with companies right now and future.

00:27:52: Nevertheless I would still consider an early stage startup That probably needs another two or five years commercially available and launched.

00:28:08: And I think this depends a little bit on how lucky we are with having the right partners at our site to finding the right investors, but yes i would say that...that we achieved already kind of showing that we can scale it ...that we have enough to really test it with partners by being aware.

00:28:32: more funding, some more time to make it a market ready innovation.

00:28:40: Yeah which is always in.

00:28:41: I think you mentioned this before as well and that's the case with bio deep tech innovation right?

00:28:47: It takes just sometime to get out of lab stage creating the insight into a market-ready project big companies and then applied in real world scenarios.

00:29:05: timescales are just long.

00:29:06: it is what it.

00:29:08: Yeah, I'm actually like.

00:29:10: of course i would love to be faster.

00:29:12: um however i think also we shouldn't forget that for example the reason why by Halo will take some more time as you have developed a new class of materials And now we need to do a registration with the European Chemicals Agency, to basically showcase that it's safe for everyone.

00:29:40: Even though as scientists or investor or entrepreneur I might think this is slow process and i'm sure can speed up and improve from societal perspective actually.

00:29:52: It was good thing when you have developer framework by design or that we test things, if they are safe.

00:30:04: They're.

00:30:04: this mantra of move fast and break things is not always super helpful when it comes to introducing new ingredients.

00:30:11: potentially I mean in your case but other innovations could have a hazardous impact as well.

00:30:18: i think its safe to test them.

00:30:22: Yeah, like I think we should celebrate more that deep tech means Deep change and then we just need to take some time To make sure this is feasible.

00:30:33: Um But also don't want to understand us did i think the current system Is where it should be?

00:30:41: Like um, I'm sure that's We can speed up a lot And by aligning water interest from uh more let's say policy regulatory point of view with what society needs in terms of innovations would be a great asset to have and will make us more attractive market.

00:31:00: No doubt, but I also think we shouldn't completely bash.

00:31:07: That's always helpful.

00:31:11: Follow up question then on that.

00:31:12: because you mentioned this certification?

00:31:16: is sort of one of the key next steps for you.

00:31:19: And imagine it will take another few years, I guess to buy ahead and become fully commercially available on the market?

00:31:28: What are other key milestones in three or five years from your part from this certification?

00:31:46: this production process and have to be cost-competitive with the fossil fuel derived versions that are available today.

00:31:55: And since we're in an area of biomanufacturing, just means that we need to optimize our production processes by this drive down costs.

00:32:07: The more successful we are with these, So this is really the key task of our scientific team.

00:32:22: The second technological objective for my perspective would be to fully understand the potential of our molecule, we are still surprised by all their nice benefits it can bring and understanding new to the world molecule better.

00:32:39: We will able see what potential applications.

00:32:43: They are possible that we don't know of today.

00:32:48: on the commercial side, Of course The most important goal is to find partners To bring it into the market and showcase everyone that this Is not a bold idea anymore.

00:33:01: But if has an impact then We can actually improve This situation for society.

00:33:10: And

00:33:10: I guess it's also partly due risk, right?

00:33:12: Because you're not at lap scale anymore.

00:33:16: You have interest from customers and are on the journey of scaling this up further.

00:33:23: secured first investment.

00:33:24: and so there multiple of these things where because he mentioned the investor landscape before were investors would always say hmmm... Too early, too risky.

00:33:34: Let's talk a bit down the road when there is more revenue and more commercial traction and so on.

00:33:39: I think in Piles you've achieved some of these goals already In order to make this at least less risk investment right?

00:33:49: For sure!

00:33:50: We could be much more risky given where we are.

00:33:54: If i made an impression that investors don't take enough risks That was not my intention.

00:34:02: I'm actually quite happy that we got this very early investment by the Bio Innovation Institute, or also an investment by Blue Yard Capital.

00:34:12: so i don't think there's a big problem in this area.

00:34:18: but what I wanted to hint at is beyond these technical challenges of course have commercial objectives at the end is commercial objectives.

00:34:35: If we reach it or not decides whether we are having an impact on a world, right?

00:34:42: So for us as maybe impact entrepreneurs this isn't important criteria.

00:34:47: as well and beyond those technical and commercial goals of course objectives myself is to find the right investors who can help us with their funding and expertise, too.

00:35:04: To reach the commercial technical goals?

00:35:08: So that's this of course also true that we want to raise a seed round in an upcoming months off two point two million euros for let say our clean tech biotech startup able to go those next steps to drive down costs because compared in the first markets to do what is called a READ registration with this certification that we are safe to be used and that we want to find our first commercial off-takers.

00:35:43: Super exciting fingers across, but that will work out!

00:35:49: have two final questions for you.

00:35:50: Number one, at this time I'm going to ask them a sequence so that they don't think about the same question in your head.

00:35:58: The first thing i'd be interested is You mentioned how Denmark was interesting with entrepreneurship and biology.

00:36:18: From the outside of perspective, I would argue that Denmark for whatever reason this is going to be the question.

00:36:27: Has created this ecosystem biotechnology companies?

00:36:29: This seems very fruitful ecosystem of companies working on new materials novel proteins anything deeply rooted in bio technology.

00:36:44: I would like to know from you.

00:36:45: Is that true?

00:36:46: And if so, why is this...

00:36:48: Oh!

00:36:53: That's a good question and of course i don't have an objective answer but just have very subjective answers there since I haven't experienced many other ecosystems.

00:37:05: I had the pleasure doing my master thesis in Boston by Halo was part some programs also for example in Germany, Munich or Berlin or Paris.

00:37:17: And I don't see super big changes with differences between Europe?

00:37:26: I would say there is quite a difference between Boston and Denmark.

00:37:32: nevertheless.

00:37:33: The Denmark has launched an initiative called Innovation District Copenhagen and which is to kind of try to create a similar momentum than the Kendall Square in Boston.

00:37:50: So I think, In Denmark they have great ambition And i really hope that politically They can follow through with this on policy side To set framework correctly so that Copenhagen will be very advanced here.

00:38:09: I also want to acknowledge that the Danish ecosystem is not in a bad place right now.

00:38:15: When i say, I want to advance it... ...I just see differences there still between Boston and Denmark so.. ..i think everyone in Europe knows we have much more potential than what's here right now but also don't need to be regretful or pessimistic about our future like I think the cities and some certain countries in Europe show that they have an interest in advancing.

00:38:47: And Denmark is for sure one of, how would say their leaders in this movement towards biotechnology?

00:39:00: While I was working with a German corporate Bayer between my bachelor's and master's, I got there to know the term that they coined biorevolution.

00:39:12: And...and i think it is a wonderful term for thinking about our future and how biology will be capable if we utilise this correctly in order to change a lot of life.

00:39:26: and that the bioeconomy is maybe a more technical term for parts of this revolution.

00:39:35: And I think Denmark's strength, they have only within Denmark one EP center for entrepreneurship.

00:39:45: That is Copenhagen.

00:39:49: I think that it's also good for Denmark, they have countries like Sweden United Kingdom Germany close by.

00:39:58: That are maybe more hesitant sometimes but in certain aspects of the ecosystem or some more developed.

00:40:07: if you look to Sweden with their financial ecosystem and with the EO landscape The shock exchange is much stronger there.

00:40:16: so kind of there's an internal competition which drives everyone.

00:40:22: So I would say the Danish ecosystem is in a good place and wonderfully positioned.

00:40:27: if things are done correctly with Denmark, and within Europe that... There's no reason to believe that this it's not only the first good steps under the first few months.

00:40:41: but Yeah, more to come over.

00:40:45: golden age of biology free don't fuck up.

00:40:48: Well

00:40:49: the last part we're going to catch a more to cover for Golden Age in biology.

00:40:54: I think this is say and wonderful wonderful summary.

00:40:58: if i think what you described well with us minutes at this conversation that's question that they have.

00:41:05: nothing gets somewhat connected which just mentioned his aim.

00:41:10: The same question I always ask me guess what is it that keeps you going?

00:41:13: and i think parts of the answer.

00:41:15: I'm gonna give to your name.

00:41:17: can let's see whether this correct is feels like to be after this conversation that he really driven by seeing this change thing.

00:41:25: would you explain in the beginning of our conversation.

00:41:27: you know the intersection of entrepreneurship biology making a change maybe in society by creating businesses by bringing innovation into market, really feels deeply rooted and you'd feel like something that he's really passionate about.

00:41:42: I think just the answer they gave on The Danish Ecosystem also shows a lot more is to come, which i think as part of this answer what makes it get up in the morning?

00:41:53: That your driven by the fact every day are able contribute To this everyday you're able do your part In bringing about innovation will have an impact On society and our planet.

00:42:07: This is my assessment, but I'd love to hear from you.

00:42:10: Is this true?

00:42:11: What do you think?

00:42:13: nice thing it's a correct assessment.

00:42:19: actually believe that there's like this say internal motivation.

00:42:28: they might not can grab exactly pinpointed.

00:42:32: okay one see the impact.

00:42:35: i love.

00:42:35: I think to a certain extent, i'm also just enjoying what i'm doing and that this enjoyment or this passion for these type of projects is fueling myself.

00:42:55: When when i'm lying in my bed in the morning That's so cool, let us just try it.

00:43:04: It will be a fun day.

00:43:05: I have today conversation with Janne and we'll see what these companies can do together.

00:43:12: So i would like to claim that everything is about this impact in contributing but also i think by entrepreneurship.

00:43:24: you have very nice community of people who are just having fun working.

00:43:30: So I wouldn't underestimate on my part this enjoyment as well.

00:43:38: It's not all about impact unfortunately for me, i think it's really well and that is very nice to align so well at the moment.

00:43:49: but if i should be honest of course its what you said to see change happen, that I believe we can do this every day.

00:44:02: But part of the equation for me is also that I just enjoy what i'm doing.

00:44:05: and but now exactly why am enjoying it?

00:44:09: Well isn't that wonderful that you know joy is such a big part of it all?

00:44:15: so...I think then the perfect intersection where one should be feel and have fun while doing it.

00:44:26: I think the perfect combination, with that.

00:44:29: Johan thank you so much for this conversation!

00:44:33: i learned a lot about biotechnology...i knew some parts before but you definitely took one all to next level.

00:44:40: good luck on scaling buy a halo.

00:44:44: good luck on raising the seed round.

00:44:46: i think that's gonna be next major milestone for the company.

00:44:49: so fingers crossed this all goes well and then I'm excited to see where your journey takes you.

00:44:56: Thank you again for having me.

00:44:58: was it pleasure looking forward to listening too much more of your podcast in future.

00:45:03: thank you bye back.