Liv Andersson - Biozeroc (live at The Drop)

00:00:01: Welcome

00:00:07: to the Rooted in Change podcast.

00:00:10: and then we want to make space also for your questions.

00:00:37: So if there's anything that you wanna know from Live, not from me but from Live just raise your hand afterwards.

00:00:42: We'll get to that at the end or maybe anytime in between will see how this works out.

00:00:49: now.

00:00:50: This is I mean for everyone listening Now after The Drop where?

00:00:54: In the afternoon as so we already had quite some sessions on a number of topics.

00:01:00: I think we can say,

00:01:02: and...I

00:01:03: don't know how the sessions were for you that you listened to and attended but there was a lot of topic.

00:01:08: And a lot talk about AI!

00:01:11: What i found really interesting is sort-of different applications in use cases of AI?

00:01:17: In your special case it's one application which has been put to find enzymes biotechnology.

00:01:31: and

00:01:32: what I like about your case is you could say some claim, you claimed that finding those new enzymes has almost become a commodity.

00:01:40: It's became easy and simple but now the challenges moved on from finding them to actually well how do we scale this?

00:01:48: How do we produce them at scale?

00:01:51: How would you provide infrastructure so they can run and survive?

00:01:57: this is at least what I've understood.

00:01:58: This is the challenge that you solved, so we're going to talk about and sort of everything that BioZeroq just in... well now?

00:02:05: Just a second!

00:02:06: So welcome Liv!

00:02:07: Thank You very much.

00:02:09: And um We talked bit beforehand as i know it's your background but maybe you want introduce yourself To this audience here then everyone else who listens to us afterwards.

00:02:19: Yeah, sure.

00:02:20: Hi everyone!

00:02:21: Liv Andersson, founder and CEO of Biosirac.

00:02:24: I always find this hard question like who are you?

00:02:26: but... ...I suppose it's nice to be here?

00:02:30: I am from Sweden.

00:02:30: originally grew up in the Laplands so they complete opposite

00:02:35: sides.

00:02:36: The complete opposite side.

00:02:37: is Sweden actually closer home to Cambridge now than I am

00:02:40: right

00:02:40: around Fran?

00:02:41: but yeah grew up as a child middle-of-the-forest ice fishing skiing my first driver's license with a snowmobile driver licence?

00:02:51: Of course it was.

00:02:53: Which is such fun contrast.

00:02:54: where I met now, you know like studied science and engineering and living in Cambridge right working on really high tech stuff.

00:03:01: so i guess there are two sides of loving nature feeling it rather close to heart somehow working the try-and save it.

00:03:09: well maybe that already then leads us into todays conversation.

00:03:12: What is it that led you to founding Biosearch?

00:03:14: Like what was sort of that moment in time because he talked about being in Cambridge and I guess having the academic academic background.

00:03:21: So maybe we can talk a bit more how their journey was from up north in Sweden, too.

00:03:25: To England now.

00:03:27: Yeah so II worked In London as a consultant in an engineering company for many years Helping You know particularly in the sustainability team bringing more sustainable solutions to industrial settings and came across this great solution of scientists that knew how to use bacteria, right?

00:03:49: To grow concrete.

00:03:51: And of course the cement space was a space I was quite familiar with... ...and thought this is something that can get behind in help!

00:04:00: As we were sort-of looking at scaling it up.

00:04:03: We did go from using the bacteria itself as living organism.. ..and quite temperamental at times to extracting the enzyme itself, which is the active component.

00:04:14: And thought we're going use this as a catalyst... ...to help transform these materials and make the active binder.

00:04:22: But what I ran into at that point was everything using enzymes built for pharma.

00:04:29: It's low volumes super high margins Everything batch based very particular conditions Complete opposite of what you needed in any kind of industry and especially like a high-volume low margin industry like cement.

00:04:46: So we had to rebuild all the hardware automation continuous manufacturing from scratch And this was at first very product focused.

00:04:58: We did this for the cement industry But realized over time, and especially with AI coming in as you say Designing new enzymes for all types of industry almost became commoditized that you know We engineered our own enzyme.

00:05:12: It was it was hard, but he wasn't.

00:05:14: it wasn't that hard right?

00:05:16: The hard part was how do we bring it to an industrial setting?

00:05:19: and if we had That much challenge with it and invested that much in building the hardware in systems

00:05:24: Everyone else?

00:05:26: Yeah exactly other companies are gonna have a same problem.

00:05:28: So I thought you know actually maybe there's more value for us in just Helping them out and licensing that outs to all types of industries helping the bridge that gap Rather than focusing on a particular vertical.

00:05:40: Got you, And this is where PyroZero is now?

00:05:43: It is yes.

00:05:44: So we are actually in the closing stages of contracts.

00:05:47: That's completely different

00:05:48: industry Right.

00:05:50: so it's quite exciting To see that refocus really Is what they were hoping for me.

00:05:57: right I would assume correct if i'm wrong but This is a very particular field and challenge that you're solving.

00:06:06: How do you describe this, for example to family or grandparents back home in Northern Sweden?

00:06:12: Because all the terms used make sense for someone from industry.

00:06:16: but if they try one step away from your academic background what inspires them ultimately?

00:06:27: Okay I mean...this was really good question!

00:06:29: Yeah, so

00:06:32: we're preparing for this actually.

00:06:34: So almost in all industries, catalysts are used one way or another.

00:06:40: It's essentially use to help make a reaction happen To break down and transform materials.

00:06:45: Like I can take an example If you eat an egg for breakfast Maybe you boil an egg You apply heat to transform the properties of your eggs.

00:06:56: That is like catalysis.

00:06:58: Many times in industry you do apply say high heat or high pressure, or chemicals to make those catalysts happen.

00:07:06: The problem is that I mean saying the case of heats.

00:07:10: That requires a lot of energy and energy's becoming more costly And it causes us a lot carbon emissions.

00:07:17: So its both an economic challenge and also a sustainability challenge for industrial settings.

00:07:24: Enzymes are incredibly powerful catalyst.

00:07:29: It operates at room temperatures and ambient pressures.

00:07:33: So the problem traditionally has been, whilst it's fantastic from an energy and sustainability perspective... ...it just hasn't been economically viable.

00:07:42: And that is a layer we help bridging.

00:07:44: We make it continuous.

00:07:46: so it works with industry as it is But also helps extend the enzyme lifespan in making it last longer so you can actually bring costs down.

00:07:57: So, thank you for that simple explanation.

00:07:59: For a family up north and maybe we'll have to translate it into Swedish I guess To make this even more accessible than taking one step further then enter the technology because he was just saying sort of This is what we solved.

00:08:11: well What?

00:08:12: Is that levered at?

00:08:13: you?

00:08:13: put what's sort of?

00:08:14: what did you bring to the table that Wasn't there before?

00:08:18: so It's two-fold.

00:08:21: The core of our IP sits around the process IP.

00:08:25: So how do you make enzymatic manufacturing continuous?

00:08:31: And, How to make it completely free from human interactions.

00:08:35: Most biological processes will be very manual and require a lot of manual interventions which works in pharma.

00:08:42: but try getting that into chemical plants.

00:08:45: I mean good luck!

00:08:47: That's one part we solve.

00:08:49: The other is the enzyme cost.

00:08:52: so we do something called immobilization.

00:08:55: rather than just mixing it in with the liquid and hoping for the best, we put on a support.

00:09:02: And if you do that really well not only don't have to filter or take out at end of process but also extend the enzyme lifespan by multiples

00:09:14: which again is cost factor right?

00:09:17: Exactly!

00:09:18: We've got very broad library based approach.

00:09:20: so doing this as well We do generate an enormous amount of data that can help make these processes even better and faster in the future.

00:09:30: Right, we talked a bit about different industries already.

00:09:33: when you mentioned pharma as one I guess you just mention chemicals.

00:09:37: where are there applications for your technology?

00:09:41: Who would ultimately sell to us?

00:09:43: is this question?

00:09:45: So we have two target markets.

00:09:48: One sector already using enzymes.

00:09:53: For example,

00:09:54: for example pharma cosmetics.

00:09:58: chemicals that see potential in bringing down their costs bring up the throughput by making it continuous and In industries like pharma research shows that By making manufacturing continues you can actually cut the regulatory approval life cycle which

00:10:15: obviously is Super important for companies in the farmer space, for example.

00:10:19: Yes with the IP lifespan of their products they really do like shortening regulatory approvals.

00:10:27: But so that's one of the verticals we're interacting with and The other one is industries that don't use enzymes yet.

00:10:37: So in the case where negotiating now an industrial wastewater this particular client had actually tried to use enzymes before, but they couldn't make the economics work.

00:10:49: And I was proving them that we can take it from being...

00:10:52: Because of the lifespan?

00:10:54: Exactly!

00:10:55: With a life span with continuous throughput like we solved a lot of challenges and made them back away from us so actually being able to undercut their costs really helps bridge the gap in taking out into industry.

00:11:08: What's easier selling because From what I'm hearing is you know, there's one target audience that already very much used to enzymes and the way That works.

00:11:18: And they're just basically.

00:11:19: your arguments are well You get more in its cheaper Whereas then the other group might just be an audience that might have even been burnt In the past.

00:11:28: say look you've tried enzymes It didn't work.

00:11:31: here we are by zero K We've made it work um which you knows always a tough set.

00:11:35: What's your perspective on that?

00:11:37: Difficult in different ways.

00:11:40: I think the

00:11:41: good PR answer.

00:11:42: The

00:11:44: savings and changes we're gonna make in industries already use enzymes have to be more significant for them to change that, but they do know when understand what an enzyme is then how

00:11:57: it works.

00:11:58: Whereas when we go to industries that haven't used Ensign, the first conversation is what an enzyme?

00:12:03: And you know education has a lot more substantial so it makes sales cycles just... A bit longer.

00:12:13: We are interacting with both segments and trying sort of see whats comes first.

00:12:20: but yes its true platform approach So were very open and agnostic too.

00:12:25: who ever is willing to put the commitment

00:12:27: on first.

00:12:28: Right, well and good luck with that.

00:12:32: I'd be interested in because you've been around for a few years And as far so i've understood in preparing for today's session as Well.

00:12:39: You're now?

00:12:40: Don't want to say pivoting but maybe sharpening your Your story and do sort of approach slightly more to this platform angle right can you be?

00:12:48: Can you give a bit more background instead of how this did go about?

00:12:51: Because I guess there was an idea before That has worked to a certain degree because you're still here, thriving.

00:12:59: But then your sort of taking the next steps and maybe can give a bit background there?

00:13:03: I mean honestly it wasn't... We woke up one morning and changed everything in type story

00:13:08: More like natural evolution.

00:13:10: It really was gradual change Like we had core product that were working on And the core industry where focusing on.

00:13:17: but it's really this.

00:13:18: You know There is alot activity In the enzyme engineering space.

00:13:22: There are billions going into.

00:13:25: We think that this could be really valuable, but you know let's not shift overnight.

00:13:29: Let's test it out start some conversation in the background just to see where that says.

00:13:35: and so we did approach a few companies for very particular wastewater.

00:13:39: one were negotiating with now and Received an overwhelmingly positive response from several players And thought you know way

00:13:48: to go.

00:13:49: yeah

00:13:49: there might actually be something here.

00:13:51: and then you know over time It sort of became that we put more and more energy towards the platform approach, less to a particular product approach.

00:13:59: And that's where you are

00:14:00: now.

00:14:00: Exciting!

00:14:01: And collecting upon this journey... You're one of many startup founders here in The Room so I always like ask questions about what was one of most important challenges?

00:14:13: That you had overcome to get at this point today I guess to inspire others what they can learn from it and that you share a bit of your entrepreneurial wisdom if you want.

00:14:26: Yeah, one challenge was around how to publish this reposition... ...from products into an industrial setting like the evolution needs a lot of sense for us.

00:14:40: It also gives us the potential asset

00:14:43: lights.

00:14:44: Which we as investors in this room love, right?

00:14:48: Yeah I mean focusing on IP generation providing consumables.

00:14:51: so you know it's the typical subscription model.

00:14:54: great but i think what do you want to call it?

00:14:59: a pivotary focus like?

00:15:01: there are some investors who would say fantastic!

00:15:04: You've learned a lot and now have clear conviction that its proven your getting customer traction.

00:15:10: But I do find perhaps a bit more in Europe.

00:15:13: There's also some people who are like, oh well if that was the answer why didn't you think of it straight away?

00:15:18: Did you have feedback and conversations or is there more fear?

00:15:22: Indirect

00:15:22: feedback i think but its one of the risks.

00:15:27: by coming out with this so... ...I think thats something we've been very conscious about

00:15:34: Because I would always argue Its great to learn and adapt in many right directions, you've seen something moving from product to platform.

00:15:47: You see the market need and sort of see greater patterns... And proven that it works on a product level!

00:15:54: Yeah I mean of course would have been great if everyone landed at the right conviction for first time around.

00:16:00: Yes

00:16:00: but then we're all wrong business here because our lives will collectively be easier wouldn't they?

00:16:06: But i think positive part is Yes, we have sort of shifted where in the value chain was set but the product is still the same.

00:16:13: The development is still valid.

00:16:15: so yeah

00:16:17: Interesting feedback.

00:16:18: I think i need to digest that a bit because

00:16:21: okay...I

00:16:22: guess I wouldn't take it um as graciously as you do right now just say uh..i think dear investor your wrong with that.

00:16:32: without feedback That's a different story.

00:16:35: Then maybe cause.

00:16:36: we looked at.

00:16:39: We did look a bit to the past, actually over sort of last years and how you develop from product-to-platform.

00:16:46: Let's look ahead.

00:16:47: so how do in next three or five years?

00:16:49: Look for your

00:16:51: Yes!

00:16:52: In our vision is a world where automated biology is default industrial process.

00:17:00: So we don't want be one trick pony ,we dont wanna get stuck in single industry start getting our first deployments on site, but we also do want to expand in more verticals.

00:17:15: And we are focusing on companies that do own not just one type of manufacturing process or one kind of catalysis step.

00:17:22: We really don't wanna get into players.

00:17:23: when you can show them a successful case with good savings both cost and energy... ...we will start scaling out the board portfolio.

00:17:31: So this is where it would like for us in multiple industries.

00:17:39: Right, how many are you right now on the team?

00:17:42: Just ten of us!

00:17:43: Okay I think this is a great opportunity and looking at the audience for one or two questions do we have any from the audience?

00:17:50: thank you um You talked about the challenges that you've overcome.

00:17:54: when we just talk to little bit what's next In terms where you want it be three five years but From Where Are Now?

00:18:02: What Is Your Like Next Biggest Challenge Or Obstacle that you'll be really happy when you can look back and say, like I'm so happy we overcame that one.

00:18:12: It is actually the communication around it.

00:18:15: So The first industry focused on was cement.

00:18:18: Its a very tangible product.

00:18:20: Everyone can see or touch concrete in their lives.

00:18:24: It's easy to explain what it is And how its works.

00:18:28: That resonates easily with investors.

00:18:32: We're now going out...we are not racing now but will be racing soon.

00:18:37: And we are going out to try and explain a position about industrial biocatalysis in an enzymatic field.

00:18:43: It's, I think the biggest challenge that you're gonna have next few months is how do we expand this way?

00:18:49: That it resonates with investors who don't necessarily have a bio-tech background themselves can make them more broadly accessible for general type of investors

00:19:03: Maybe just after that.

00:19:05: What you reflected upon also earlier was that it needs to be perceived as a natural evolution and A success which is.

00:19:15: but That doesn't seem like.

00:19:16: hey, they've tried something.

00:19:17: It didn't work.

00:19:18: now They're doing something else rather like its.

00:19:21: well we are on a good trajectory.

00:19:25: Yeah,

00:19:29: if anyone has any good words to use to easily explain enzymatic processes.

00:19:37: I'll shoot you some ideas afterwards.

00:19:39: That sounds great, thanks.

00:19:41: Any further questions?

00:19:43: Hi I would be curious to hear which industries You see the most potential in.

00:19:50: you mentioned cement and water.

00:19:54: Yeah so Those are industries where we already have some partnerships and traction.

00:20:01: So those are obviously non- enzymatic space.

00:20:05: But in the short term, I do actually see more potential space where they already use enzymes.

00:20:11: Just because the lervening curve is so much shorter and easier to overcome.

00:20:16: So for example it's long timelines in engaging with them

00:20:22: but... As soon as you're in?

00:20:24: When your'e in a good place!

00:20:27: And just given the potential, it's already proven that continuous manufacturing can really help shorten the timelines for them to get regulatory approvals.

00:20:35: So combining that with then extending their enzyme lifespan and making it fully autonomous we do think is a very strong position that could really resonate well with that space.

00:20:46: so That Is something We Do Look To Engage More With Trying To Balance.

00:20:50: You Know The Resources We Have Of Course But Yeah!

00:20:54: We Do See Good Potential.

00:20:55: Another one is cosmetics, so by making it continuous instead of batch-based you also improve the quality of product that comes through.

00:21:04: Since the enzyme doesn't really degrade... ...it doesn't get the qualities throughout a batch that would seem normally.

00:21:09: So if we're talking about cosmetic actives there's a big premium to sell for consumers with higher quality or more homogeneous products.

00:21:18: That's another space we would like to explore further.

00:21:21: And how does this look?

00:21:22: from a just purely infrastructure point, if you add your potential customers do they need to adapt their production process in any ways?

00:21:30: Yeah so it's... We don't build an own infrastructure ourselves but very clear with that It is retrofit of plants which already exist.

00:21:39: So we will change the catalyst

00:21:42: step Right and these are for companies using enzymes Both Okay

00:21:49: say the wastewater space, we would replace a thermal hydrolysis unit with an enzymatic catalysis units.

00:21:55: Yeah

00:21:56: I'd be curious to find

00:21:57: out what do you think needs to happen in

00:22:00: industry landscape around

00:22:02: this for biomanufacturing

00:22:04: to thrive and Europe?

00:22:06: And it's probably bigger industry already than some other parts of the world.

00:22:10: so What does need to catch up?

00:22:15: That is really good.

00:22:16: point on question I mean, we've looked a lot at China where there's billions being invested on an annual basis into biomanufacturing infrastructure resilience capacity.

00:22:35: We do think that lots of the parks were working on.

00:22:38: like this manufacturing step can slot in.

00:22:41: well in manufacturing does exist in Europe but it is real thing companies decide to deploy in China, the timelines are a third of time.

00:22:53: The costs or sometimes a third at that times.

00:22:55: so I think speed is almost going be here.

00:22:58: biggest thing we're gonna have to fight there.

00:23:02: really try and get it as fast possible And off course.

00:23:07: you know these upstream downstream capacity.

00:23:10: they have their results also So much greater than what's been having Europe today?

00:23:16: that Europe really takes, you know resilience seriously and start investing in more bio infrastructure.

00:23:24: If it's not us but even upstream downstream will really help the deployment of our technology as well.

00:23:29: Any further questions from the audience?

00:23:31: How like transferable because your selling into lots of different industries is there... In terms what kind of what you're selling?

00:23:39: how different Is It From Your Perspective?

00:23:45: So The core infrastructure to make the continuous source manufacturing is more or less the same.

00:23:52: You know, you've got do some adjustments with sizing depending on the plant but it's kind of not that big a challenge.

00:24:01: There is some customization just in the immobilization.

00:24:06: But what I think really nice Since we're focusing more on the actual running and deployment of infrastructure, We are not bound to any particular support or infrastructure there.

00:24:17: We take a really broad library approach And making sure that you can find The best combination Of different enzymes, supports, coatings, tags Just generalizing A lot data in this layer.

00:24:33: That part is customizable for each sector But we almost see that as an edge somewhere where can help generate IP, generate data and help more companies to further along the go.

00:24:46: Maybe I missed it but could you share something about your business model?

00:24:50: Is this a license for the operating system or... It's some extra consultancy in stages of tailoring and optimization.

00:25:01: License on the IP hardware and recurring revenues consumables that are needed around operations.

00:25:10: And I wanted to ask, do you think there's certain policies maybe could be implemented in the future?

00:25:15: That might help this business or as these environment changes so fast it has been difficult to keep up?

00:25:24: Yes and they're already policies which helps us.

00:25:28: So take SIBAM for example.

00:25:31: Energy prices of course a lot higher in Europe than some continents.

00:25:37: So if we were purely going in on a cost basis, Europe would be the national first market.

00:25:42: But since a lot of other markets export products to Europe it might actually be a cost saving for them to reduce their carbon.

00:25:49: so that helps the economic case and other regions as well which help scaling the deployment.

00:25:56: Well this was a lot more interactive than my usual podcast recordings.

00:25:59: I love I normally don't get the questions from the audience.

00:26:03: It's just comments afterwards, so it is great to have you here and appreciate that!

00:26:07: And...I would actually like to close off with one question which always asks all my guests what keeps them going?

00:26:17: You're reflecting back on a question asked earlier about trying to explain this to your family up north in Sweden…it's complicated stuff

00:26:27: right?!

00:26:29: Selling to a farmer and you're selling two wastewater treatment Facilities that might have tried this before then have a preconception of it doesn't work and so on.

00:26:39: So,

00:26:39: You're

00:26:40: choosing a really tough path And thank you for doing this for us.

00:26:45: But there must be something intrinsically that motivates me to get up every day say look It's another day by Azeraq let's go what is that?

00:26:51: Yeah This probably gonna sound really weird but I think i just love to win.

00:27:00: I have quite strong sports backgrounds, everything from officiating world championships to groundbreaking Guinness World Record running marathons in costumes.

00:27:09: Like so...I take on a challenge and get obsessed And just really don't stop until what i want to achieve

00:27:19: Until you've won.

00:27:20: Yeah basically As corny as it sounds You know, some people say you've got to be obsessed with a particular industry or like...

00:27:29: A problem.

00:27:30: I just want get this out-see scalable impact making it good return feeling like did i start up?

00:27:39: Got it there!

00:27:40: I won.

00:27:42: Well..I'm rooting for you and pretty sure you'll win.

00:27:47: Good luck on that.

00:27:47: Thankyou so much for joining us here today And answering all those questions.