Petri Laakso - Soletair Power

00:00:01: Welcome to the Rooted in Change podcast.

00:00:05: Hey everyone, my name is Jan and you're listening To The Rooted In Change Podcasts.

00:00:08: This show features European clean tech champions And their solutions to tackle the climate crisis.

00:00:12: Today's guest is Patriot CEO and founder of Solitaire Power.

00:00:15: Now Direct eCapture continues to be a massive area Of interest but scaling it without building remote facilities and large Facilities or even requiring having infrastructure Is still an issue?

00:00:26: That exactly what Solitaire power is tackling.

00:00:28: They built modular carbon capture technology designed to integrate directly into commercial buildings.

00:00:33: And this approach allows real estate owners to capture CO² right through their existing air ventilation systems, which in turn lowers energy costs and turns any standard offices into carbon sinks.

00:00:44: We'll find out how exactly that works with Petri In just a few minutes.

00:00:48: Welcome

00:00:49: Thanks Jan.

00:00:50: My first question is always sort of who are you as a person?

00:00:55: So let's dive into this.

00:00:57: Who are you, Petri?

00:00:59: Yeah I'm forty-nine years old from La Pérante of Finland daughter.

00:01:04: uh i have four daughters and

00:01:06: uh oh wow that's handful.

00:01:08: yeah it is so.

00:01:10: yeah That's basically me...I'm born in Helsinki And I need to move here to La Pèrante which is like two hundred kilometers away because I was not good enough in high school The threshold to get into the university was a little bit lower, but I was desperate to go back to Helsinki after studies.

00:01:32: But it never happened and...I like too much!

00:01:36: It's really nice to be here close-to nature And now live by the lakeside.

00:01:41: So, so

00:01:44: stereotypical Finnish life as one expects it to be.

00:01:48: And then maybe that's a good way into our conversation because Lapirante is quite famous also for its technical university right?

00:01:55: That might have been the root even to Salty Power for you!

00:01:59: Maybe give us some background there...

00:02:02: Yeah actually when I started in ninety seven two thousand and two let's say green things were not yet that much of idea.

00:02:13: But it came, I think after twenty fourteen or something like this and LUT has kind of gained a lot of traction.

00:02:21: they made good progress several startups spinning off on these topics.

00:02:27: And the background which led to me into this company...I think all started when i was at VTT back in twenty fourteen probably..i met Pasi Vainikka And then he had a R&D project, Neocarbon.

00:02:46: He was at VTT and we together with LUT.

00:02:48: they envisioned to utilize CO² right?

00:02:51: To make fuels... ...and that was kind of also the origination of this company because The Local Serial Entrepreneur Ari Pespanen saw it on the local newspaper That LUT and VTT want to make fuels out of CO².

00:03:06: They were envisioning take the CO² from a flu gas or let's say smokestack.

00:03:12: And he was calling the professors that, hey why don't you take it from the air?

00:03:17: because of CO₂ we have climate change.

00:03:20: The professor and Pasi were leading VTT side said there is no such.

00:03:25: companies can make a really small unit that's affordable even if they don't have much money to spend on equipment.

00:03:34: Ari said how much do you have?

00:03:37: That kind?

00:03:39: when they ordered first units it came out twenty seventeen as a pilot outdoors.

00:03:47: And and, uh, It was kind of the moment that we realized at the cost of capture is going to be high if you do it outdoors right now.

00:03:55: I had another company making indoor air purified

00:03:58: because off the higher dilution of this year too in the air or sort of.

00:04:02: what's the main driver off-cost?

00:04:04: Yeah Of course they're still is the coppix i mean equipment are quite expensive unit move massive amounts and spend energy on releasing the CO-tube, because it's basically a temperature swing.

00:04:18: And then when I combine two ideas... Because in buildings we ventilate air anyhow On our daily level We just don't necessarily notice that It is huge kind of infrastructure That we have globally Existing and spending energy that we could utilize.

00:04:38: And then they were about to get the funding and Pasi called me.

00:04:42: I was in a publicly listed solar company running their project that has there, he told me hey we need somebody run this company because Pasi is going start his journey with Solar Foods which makes food out of air.

00:04:56: That's why i joined the company cause i saw it as my chance for something like mine and being the let's say, one who says that what shall we do?

00:05:07: And I found this really interesting.

00:05:09: So i left from the solar industry and came to work in a carbon capture industry... ...and it has been pretty interesting.

00:05:16: seven-and-a-half years!

00:05:19: It is going be just couple of years and its gonna be massive success.

00:05:23: but

00:05:24: you know... A massive

00:05:25: success?!

00:05:27: Yeah.. That still have seen where keeping our fingers crossed for that and I'm confident that will happen.

00:05:34: But yeah, isn't it?

00:05:36: That's probably also already one reflection... ...that these deep tech cycles are always a bit longer than you envision right like the year itself is phrased as we're capturing this year too out of existing infrastructure The airs already moving and indoors We don't need Cupics heavy infrastructure.

00:05:57: So it's a very smart approach to use sort of existing things and just add on that an existing layer too, to tackle problem there.

00:06:07: But still you know Researcher and R&D cycles are longer than expected.

00:06:12: then also the commercial cycles I guess our along with them Expected and protected

00:06:18: Yeah.

00:06:18: And yeah.

00:06:19: Of course we've been developing the technology over the years.

00:06:22: It's getting better and cheaper and so on.

00:06:26: But still, we see that the green things are not necessarily kind of essence in real estate sector.

00:06:33: Because basically they're real-estate investors and owners... ...are kind of the solitaires' customers.

00:06:39: So why would somebody put this into their building?

00:06:42: Even though maybe you can save a little bit of energy here in Singapore.

00:06:46: It's substantial then it is savings But then doing something negative emissions and so on.

00:06:54: It's it's so new that I didn't really realize when i joined the company, That would actually be So amazing like I thought in the beginning.

00:07:05: we've made a couple of pivots underway because In the beginning it was about People performance lower co-two level creating fuel out of that co two.

00:07:16: Nowadays we speak about generating value for the building owners and saving energy in hotter climates.

00:07:23: And also creating negative emissions, so I think all CO² industries is taking steps forward.

00:07:30: there are companies utilizing the CO².

00:07:32: We have a pretty good collaboration going on with Carbonade here in Finland.

00:07:38: Their technology used in concrete industry that they utilize to put it into concrete as a permanent storage.

00:07:49: And then the sites that take CO two and take it under the sea are popping up all around Europe, and there other companies like carbonate also here in the world I mean, in Europe and in US.

00:08:02: so we also need those guys.

00:08:05: Yeah, it's wider ecosystem yeah?

00:08:08: And maybe going back to because you mentioned this number of of pivots and a sort-of way focus on it also that the uptake from the commercial building operators might be, well I guess lower or less enthusiastic than you originally thought about.

00:08:28: What's what is your main route for now into like?

00:08:31: how do sell this solution?

00:08:36: it

00:08:42: depends a bit where in the world you are.

00:08:44: Like I said, In the hotter and humid climates The energy savings is so substantial that we can make business like

00:08:51: this because they have high need for air ventilation?

00:08:56: It starts from the fact when people exhale in buildings CO² You need to take out fresh air And hot and humid climate like Hong Kong For example.

00:09:07: We had one case open there.

00:09:08: at the moment when you take the hot and humid air, you need to dehumidify.

00:09:14: And that takes a lot of energy if he can do only half of that?

00:09:17: You save a lot off energy.

00:09:19: Gotcha!

00:09:21: That's why just stopping the CO² and venting it out enables customers to save energy.

00:09:28: This customer was saying but Do we have to use this CO²?

00:09:31: No But It would be nice

00:09:34: Yeah

00:09:35: To do climate positive things.

00:09:36: They said yeah We are not people who want business.

00:09:41: So that's like the hot and humid climate, but in Denmark.

00:09:44: The legislation is putting lower and lower limits for buildings.

00:09:47: if you want to build a new building so You can build normal building utilize our technology to create negative emissions And this way end up having A better kind of financial position than utilizing novel materials and making green buildings.

00:10:05: In Europe we have also European Buildings performance directive coming into play Or public buildings, twenty-twenty eight and first of January.

00:10:14: Twenty thirty it should be all around the Europe.

00:10:18: then All the new building should be let's say Emission free or carbon free depending

00:10:25: Depending on which term.

00:10:26: yeah But not really net zero.

00:10:28: It doesn't mean that they need to be net zero but anyhow that kind of a kind of legislation or Directives are kind of driving the industry forward that people would kind of see our solution as a really good one.

00:10:46: In our latest case in Denmark where we installed this system, the tenant is paying higher rent and real estate investors value buildings based on their income then operational costs.

00:10:58: so if you can lower the operational cost

00:11:01: and

00:11:02: increase the rent buildings or real estate is the biggest store of wealth for us as a humankind.

00:11:12: So if you can increase ten percent of that, Bitcoin and other things are like nothing compared to that.

00:11:20: so... And Real Estate investing in this long-term game.

00:11:25: I don't know whether you have rental apartments Or there's many people who do have those.

00:11:30: You buy it, keep it for twenty years.

00:11:33: Let's say that it is not low yield, but over the years it accumulates.

00:11:40: You don't want to invest in middle-to-middle with your investment plan because you just wanna keep on doing this and grinding a lot of money.

00:11:52: So if real estate investors do not need anything they don´t.

00:11:58: there are funds behind this investment and the funds need to perform.

00:12:02: And if they invest on something, even though it would be nice but not absolutely necessary.

00:12:07: so that's why its'nt going through.

00:12:09: Okay Katja!

00:12:10: That also means in turn because you mentioned sort of that you're from La Pirante Finland But then here now selling worldwide right?

00:12:20: How is that?

00:12:21: Because I imagine your a relatively small team Yeah, but have sales operations globally because sort of from traditional hardware sales There's always sort of you know You do one country and then you might expand to the next one and so on.

00:12:34: But yeah it feels like you're doing this more And that maybe the industry is a bit more Integrated in.

00:12:42: thereby It's easy to do.

00:12:43: global sales may be shine a bit of light on this?

00:12:46: Yeah our statistical focuses in the Nordics are northern Europe That's quite clear, but as you know startups need to make turnover and if somebody is willing to pay good money then that's what we do especially when it aligns with our let say overall strategy.

00:13:04: We've been using one company which is like a northern european company that can do the installation for us.

00:13:12: so we are basically doing the commissioning meaning.

00:13:18: But this other company has been doing all the installations.

00:13:21: I mean, heavy lifting of stuff and installing the piping... ...doing electrical work and plumbing because even though we have electricians in the company they might not have permission to do installation in different countries for example.

00:13:36: so that's why we work with partners And most advantages could be just a technology provider And some global HVAC company could be the one utilizing our technology to turn their systems, let's say more energy saving than they actually are.

00:13:57: Yeah which also would probably give you a much wider integration into existing projects right?

00:14:04: If sort of that partnership exists then you spare yourselves the integrity project based sales approach but rather can plug in two existing pipelines and projects and so on...

00:14:14: Maybe one at least.

00:14:16: Next year we plan to install twenty seven units.

00:14:20: It could be that there are several of those in the same building, but still several projects and if for example it takes a couple weeks To install one unit And people would need ten places means they're more or less all time around the world.

00:14:36: So thats why we need partners instead us sending people more or less everywhere in the world and then we might be running out of people also.

00:14:47: So to see how this goes, but do you want to work with partners anyhow?

00:14:55: Noted!

00:14:56: And that I think brings me maybe another question which is related because we talked about why people buy your solution.

00:15:09: are they looking into alternatives?

00:15:12: or because you're also friends that, now in the carbon capture business.

00:15:17: Is there sort of any competition that you see?

00:15:20: Or is the competition just not doing it and keeping the status quo was always done?

00:15:26: how do look at that?

00:15:29: yeah let's say our technology to direct their capture of CO two.

00:15:34: so basically we are in the deck space but there are not that many companies who do this in buildings.

00:15:42: Basically, on In addition to us there is Daikin who bought Enverry technology about a year ago But they only stopped the CO² and went it out.

00:15:53: so They did energy savings.

00:15:56: I don't know about the performance of their systems and so on, but... But i expect that it's not at the same level.

00:16:02: And our IP is about CO² capturing building ventilation or reutilizing that CO².

00:16:08: So if somebody would like to use that It's a granted patent here in Europe & in US.

00:16:14: Somebody who'd like to do that they are probably violating the patent..I'm not sure Of course That always!

00:16:25: if there is only one company in the business, there's no business.

00:16:28: And when they are several ones so I feel that many others coming...I've heard stories from a Chinese and Japanese companies but not really seen those In US.

00:16:41: There used to be couple of them But they pivoted other things.

00:16:48: So

00:16:53: how do you see The overall perception of the direct air capture space, because in sort my intro before we talked a bit about what I talk to you about.

00:17:04: Air Capture always at least from an immediate perspective.

00:17:07: has this feel that he needs big containerized equipment somewhere and remote locations?

00:17:16: And i have the advantage of seeing your virtual background now You're going very much the opposite way.

00:17:22: instead spaces you're going to sort of where people are and it's very human centric in that sense because its buildings, the idea is because of ventilation humans visiting that area.

00:17:37: This is where the business case becomes attractive.

00:17:40: how do you see the overall perception?

00:17:52: Yeah, I would say that the deck space has gained a lot of bad publicity over the last couple years maybe Even though people are doing good work.

00:18:03: Not to put any names on the table but still i see that The market leaders are doing great job.

00:18:10: Many companies are doing a great job.

00:18:12: Of course the promises may be.

00:18:14: in past have been much heavier than what had been delivered but still as an industry I think we have been taking steps forward.

00:18:24: We kind of go the opposite way than other ones, typically people say that bigger the deck better energy efficiency.

00:18:33: But our system enables energy savings in buildings.

00:18:36: so thats why our capture cost can be negative.

00:18:40: and if you save energy on a building level then your system also needs energy.

00:18:45: it saves more under ventilation or hot climate.

00:18:49: So that's why it is a bit different.

00:18:50: And then if you think about single place in this world where we have high stability environment, same temperature and humidity there... It´s the buildings!

00:18:58: That´s what we focus on those.

00:19:01: We want to do small modular so its completely opposite of other companies are doing them.

00:19:08: Of course some people say ''What about CO²?

00:19:11: Where does it

00:19:11: go?''.

00:19:13: Then they can have tank collect the COG and take it to nearby concrete manufacturing facility.

00:19:20: It doesn't exist yet, but you know there are these food delivery companies... You pay two euro together one Big Mac meal at your house And it comes from ten kilometers away.

00:19:31: I don't know how that business really works.

00:19:34: Everybody can calculate That's a profitable business.

00:19:39: yet.

00:19:39: But when you have enough places where people go around

00:19:43: Network effects, right?

00:19:44: Like it's sort of as with social networks in the beginning.

00:19:48: You need that critical amount of people for to become.

00:19:52: and then one criticism to us is always that hey what building... It's not that much of CO².

00:19:58: Yeah!

00:19:59: One building might not be but when you take all the buildings in the world you put our systems into ventilation.

00:20:06: speak about gigatons already today so it starts add up.

00:20:12: When I was in elementary school, I heard the story about rainforests and them being kind of their lungs off.

00:20:20: The world inhaling the CO to into the trees.

00:20:23: now what we are saying is that all the office buildings on older buildings would be the lungs of the world inhailing the CEO to utilizing it in a concrete industry putting it permanently away why not also under the sea?

00:20:36: And so on.

00:20:37: maybe We need still eSaf sustainable aviation fuel.

00:20:42: We've done fuels in the past.

00:20:45: Our partners at Solar Foods make food for people to eat from that CO², so there are also utilization cases where you could utilize the CO².

00:20:53: So I still see that the deck has a lot to come...I came from the solar industry and solar panels is in the nineties very

00:21:04: similar right

00:21:06: yeah Yeah.

00:21:06: And over the course of let's say thirty forty years price is so cheap that it's the cheapest way of generating electricity.

00:21:15: and basically what you could do today when the battery prices have come down, then you can buy a battery at your home put solar panels maybe not in winter in Finland but let say in Central Europe.

00:21:27: And you would be off grid completely unless you had an electrical car than you spent too much electricity But otherwise the house kind of... It could be the cheapest ways to do electricity for your house.

00:21:40: And I mean, with the batteries coming into play and you use all that additional capacity to charge the battery when electricity prices are really low.

00:21:50: There's an abundance of energy available from sort-of offshore wind for example which is still blowing in this winter time.

00:21:58: so it becomes a smart integrated system.

00:22:01: but i think the point he made before pointing out how successful solar industry can be because I guess in the nineties many people still thought of, you know how much contribution does a single installation on a single home actually take?

00:22:20: You what's...I guess it was seven eight kilowatt installations that sort of max.

00:22:27: That doesn't change the energy system but looking at how much install capacity we have nowadays it has changed the energy system.

00:22:35: I think that's really interesting, especially your technology is going in a similar way to say yeah one of this building will not change the world.

00:22:44: A lot of buildings will.

00:22:47: and what i really like about your case is sort of that you're lowering the barriers because using existing infrastructure or existing plans It isn't necessarily new land.

00:23:03: then direct eCapture is not that you need to install these huge massive fans somewhere, but they're actually using something that IS there for baking it better and smarter.

00:23:13: And so I think that's a really smart approach.

00:23:16: Yeah maybe one.

00:23:18: what emerged was last year if the German chain little They sell this home solar things That have four panels You just plug them in.

00:23:29: In Finland, the legislation doesn't allow to put it on a normal house plug.

00:23:33: But in Germany I guess you can do that and it's like three hundred euros?

00:23:38: I would say more or less everybody can afford that.

00:23:40: than then you have free electricity And if everyone will be able to do this we'll get a lot of renewables.

00:23:46: Of course during daytime there are lots of peak renewables but because the data center is eating so much That could be possible.

00:23:55: So my point was that solar has come down so cheap That I believe that the darker capture will also be a mainstream technology sometime in the future.

00:24:07: Maybe not into five years, but then ten-twenty years we start to be all of new buildings who want to be net zero because you need negative emissions to reach net zero and thats something what is needed

00:24:22: Right?

00:24:22: yeah definitely totally agree on that one.

00:24:25: And we talked already about the challenges, maybe so we turn this question around and actually look at both sort of progress and challenges.

00:24:35: If you could look at your entrepreneurial journey over the last years because he mentioned it's seven and a half years now And thought that if might have gone faster.

00:24:46: So maybe if you can reflect things That I've worked on really well and also thinks that You found challenging over these years?

00:24:58: Yeah Of course We haven't had the luxury of having a lot funding.

00:25:02: I mean enough funding, yes but not a lot.

00:25:05: and looking back into times past i can clearly see some decisions that we made that were stupid But it was done at the time because of certain reasons.

00:25:23: And now...we see the implications.

00:25:29: things just take time and we have been selling quite a lot of systems, I mean in the scale that we are.

00:25:37: And when we're doing these commercial cases and not doing R&D then things aren't really moving ahead like what you want to do.

00:25:45: so R & D cycles are longer than expected or if we could focus on the R & d it would be faster.

00:25:55: but each project has taught us a lot on the way.

00:25:59: I mean, that when we have a deadline and budget it gets done because if you don't have a budget then you do not have deadlines.

00:26:10: people are how would i say genius enough to keep doing R&D without actual purpose?

00:26:18: I was at LUT as researcher in VTT also.

00:26:23: there idea is get project after Because that's how those organizations work.

00:26:33: But in our company, we've always had a target like it was back in twenty-twenty when We gave an idea to Värtsilä That hey let's make fuel out of air In Dubai at the Dubai World Expo.

00:26:47: And they bought The story and then we needed To deliver.

00:26:50: you know if You want just grab from the air Fuel and burn it somehow.

00:26:56: but we were able to do so.

00:26:58: We put hydrogen, let's say the electrolyzer that creates hydrogen.

00:27:05: then we had a synthetic methanization kind of created synthetic natural gas.

00:27:11: So we could do this in Dubai.

00:27:13: But there was project with pretty strict deadline.

00:27:18: Then Covid hit!

00:27:19: We couldn't get parts Right.

00:27:21: So many things have happened over the last seven years, but it has been also luck that we haven't had huge amounts of funding because would be doing stupid stuff.

00:27:33: I mean developing something you don't actually need so good and bad sides having a little bit tight budget every year.

00:27:44: let's put in this way

00:27:46: yeah i guess at least set up with Sort of with the limited amount of funding, there's always this resourcefulness that you have to... You have no other choice.

00:28:02: Obviously life would be more comfortable With more money in the bank and key could act on certain opportunities faster And he could hire more people and so on and it will feel like a More.

00:28:13: I don't know what?

00:28:15: It would feel like more.

00:28:16: maybe let's leave it at that but then again add You're not solving the problems in the same way because you need to get creative about it.

00:28:23: Because your other funds are limited, and I think that's a really helpful way to think as well.

00:28:30: with this sort of limited resources comes also an additional layer problem-solving

00:28:35: And i think It was one another podcast or these kind things where we said team has made a lot progress As people and engineers pretty lucky to get talented people in and really stepping up, taking responsibility and delivering.

00:28:56: So that is also something we need to remember – companies are basically the people of a company because without them it's nothing… And not just one guy even though I could be face-of-the-company but there're many talented people behind me who actually do what they deliver.

00:29:18: So we need to keep in mind that it's not the funding, but also people.

00:29:24: And committed people I mean... We believe in same thing and even though sometimes it might be budget is limited.. ...we find a way of believing ourselves so we can do it!

00:29:42: Even if looks impossible let say challenging

00:29:48: right?

00:29:50: Yeah, maybe you know.

00:29:51: I actually think challenges also The nice.

00:29:54: in a way life would be boring if everything we just go according to plan all the time.

00:29:58: So yeah And

00:29:59: it's

00:30:00: fine.

00:30:01: It's really exciting to see something happening.

00:30:04: for example there unit that we are now building for our customer.

00:30:08: We made it half-the size than previous model.

00:30:11: We made at half of course then previous model that we had and seeing Seeing it come together and producing what we have designed That's really interesting and seeing new stuff, something concrete.

00:30:26: It is not just PowerPoints day in or out with nothing real.

00:30:31: We are creating a real equipment which works.

00:30:36: So that the kind of why I wake up every morning to come to work Really like doing things no one else has.

00:30:46: Right, I mean before we go there because i think.

00:30:48: I want to touch upon this towards the end once more.

00:30:52: What's if you can look ahead now?

00:30:53: To The next three two five years?

00:30:55: what's your ambition?

00:30:56: where do You wanna take solitaire power with?

00:30:58: whats the plan?

00:30:59: yeah like every startup CEO whether you ask it It's gonna be huge thing.

00:31:06: We truly see that Next year Plan is to double the turnover from two and a half million From This Year to Five next Year And I believe that we will make a partnership with couple of companies, which are then kind-of the technology provider.

00:31:26: This really starts to hit off as a technology in the next three or five years.

00:31:33: and then we start speak about big numbers of deliveries.

00:31:38: so can't recall exactly.

00:31:41: but let's say eight hundred units by twenty thirty.

00:31:45: this is some kind of a level.

00:31:46: Eight hundred sounds, but since we are small modular one office building might have twenty.

00:31:54: so it's not that many office buildings on the yearly level.

00:31:56: and then Some of our customers coming with cases to have like sixty units in a building.

00:32:03: So could be ten buildings than bigger buildings.

00:32:08: We deliver by twenty thirty.

00:32:10: I think ambition would even higher But let's keep it real still.

00:32:17: Yeah, I mean there is no point in having an ambition that's shooting to the moon if you're confident that would shoot way too high... I think a sound and ambitious ambition are good but unrealistic vision isn't helpful.

00:32:35: It sets everyone up for failure.

00:32:39: potential investors buy into that vision and are unhappy afterwards, but he didn't reach their full potential.

00:32:46: It's a stressful life and you're always working against goals that aren't possible to reach.

00:32:50: so I agree it needs to be ambitious yet somewhat

00:32:56: realistic.".

00:32:58: And then if few minutes we talked about sort of the thing Solving maybe you can shine a bit more light and sort of that ambition.

00:33:11: because yeah, I think we have really interesting personal journey.

00:33:15: Moving from Helsinki to then La Piranta getting stuck there having four daughters And also on the professional journey From one industry solar to carbon capture which is so different.

00:33:31: In many ways it's quite parallel in terms developments and you know I think when you left solar was just reaching really that growth phase in that growth momentum.

00:33:42: And i guess, you're now seeing similar things with the duck space.

00:33:47: so again what I always tell my podcast guests is he could have a more comfortable life maybe an even more comfortable live and less stressful life.

00:33:59: yet your choosing this path for reasons of what isn't it keeps him going.

00:34:05: Yeah, I think it's all the new things.

00:34:07: I really liked always... ...I was in the R&D before the solar thing doing all sorts of things and its creating something real.. ..and something new for example In the solar business.

00:34:22: we moved a solar cell factory from Italy to Lithuania And ramped up several different new cells.

00:34:29: I didn't have any chemical background and so on.

00:34:32: Just the chairman of board called me one day that Petri take plane tickets to Venice tomorrow morning, you had a hundred days to move the factory And it was kind like okay Let's fly there let see what happens.

00:34:48: In this business we've made pretty high targets When are able meet them.

00:34:56: That's really interesting and seeing new things happening.

00:34:59: And now I can be the person kind of doing decisions that we do, but then sometimes i need to look in mirror.

00:35:09: why did you do this?

00:35:12: So it is not easy because Sometimes its hard.

00:35:21: But thats probably why it also feels good.

00:35:27: And some days I remember that in the morning it's like super nice, we got a new deal from customer.

00:35:34: Yes!

00:35:35: Then the afternoon something happens and you're like...

00:35:39: Really?

00:35:39: Yeah.. I will pack my stuff and go home to think about all of things in this world where nothing makes sense.

00:35:47: The next day is over again.

00:35:49: so

00:35:49: yeah maybe i think that roller coaster riding one day was perfect resemblance of what it is like to live an entrepreneurial life.

00:35:59: You have to ride the highs and you also have to go through the lows, often they come in a very short amount of time.

00:36:08: And I think that's that resilience To be actually able to do That but also see The fun part in It and the joy In it.

00:36:17: i Think thats the key.

00:36:21: Yeah, and maybe one thing to remember is for I think everybody that You need to keep yourself in a good condition.

00:36:29: I mean Mentally and physically.

00:36:32: so sometimes you just need to take the time off.

00:36:35: I Mean do?

00:36:37: Cool down it's a wrong word but let say settle down and think about that.

00:36:41: are we doing the right things?

00:36:44: Because I don't know.

00:36:45: some times you wake up in the night two three AM And there's no sleep.

00:36:51: And if you do one week in a row like that, then You might end up in trouble at some point.

00:36:56: Right

00:36:57: and Then you just need to kind of keep the focus on.

00:37:02: Do your thing?

00:37:04: Believe That good things will happen.

00:37:07: But but that's really what I've said To my team also.

00:37:11: sometimes you Just need to call it A day and come back The next day with Fresh, yeah.

00:37:18: And sometimes you need to take a couple of days off and come again because it's this is a marathon.

00:37:26: It's not like we do one month as you heard.

00:37:29: seven-and-a half years done already.

00:37:31: So the next one once ain't gonna change.

00:37:34: Oh could be that he

00:37:36: could

00:37:37: but if still good That you will do a couple over years more

00:37:40: right?

00:37:40: See I think this is important realization red like your always in it for the long run.

00:37:45: And you're right, a month could change everything but it also means that months is still only part of the race.

00:37:54: That he's still have to complete however long it might be.

00:37:58: so yeah well with that fingers crossed for that raise will be cheering every year good luck and interesting to see where take the company and how much impact you can kind off.

00:38:11: thank you so much making time today.

00:38:14: Yeah, thanks Jan for the invitation.